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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2581 of 3207 (881050)
08-17-2020 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 2576 by Straggler
08-16-2020 5:27 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Isn’t T=0 effectively the point at which time (and space) come into existence in the Big Bang?
Time and space does not exist at T=0. That is the reason for the zero
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2576 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2020 5:27 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2582 of 3207 (881051)
08-17-2020 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 2578 by ICANT
08-16-2020 11:51 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
Either the universe has existed eternally.
OR
The universe began to exist.
If it began to exist something had to create it whether it was Hawking's instanton, 2 branes hitting each other, God, or something else.
None of those things make any sense to non-cosmologists. A universe existing forever is not understandable and neither is one popping into existence by itself. Something causing it to happen - your's or somebody else's god - does not help us either as it simply creates an infinite regress of what created the god.
The question can not be answered. The concept of 'nothing' makes no sense to us. There is nothing outside the universe yet the universe is expanding into it. We do not have the tools to understand, but that's no reason to irrational invent a uncased, cause let alone grovel on your knees to worship it. That's pagan superstition.
Tangle writes:
Krauss is as rabid an atheist as I am, does he belive in a creator too?
ICANT writes:
Sure his nothing was relativistic quantum fields.
Which is not A Creator is it?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2578 by ICANT, posted 08-16-2020 11:51 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2585 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:17 AM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2583 of 3207 (881060)
08-17-2020 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2579 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:17 AM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
If there is no God it would be an empty claim as you would just be dead.
Non sequitur.
ICANT writes:
But you want me to accept that the universe just 'is'.
I couldn't care less what you accept.
ICANT writes:
The question is how did it begin to exist. Zero scientific evidence. So the only evidence we have is the Bible.
You have it backwards. The only evidence we have is scientific. There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
ICANT writes:
How many scientific facts would my Bible have to have recorded in it over 2000 years before it was known by science for it to be a reliable book?
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2579 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2587 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:37 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2584 of 3207 (881061)
08-17-2020 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 2580 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:30 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
You start with no time and you end up with no time.
You start at a point on the time line and you move forward. You can not remove time like you can remove apples. You can not get back to "no time".

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2580 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:30 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2586 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:24 AM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2585 of 3207 (881065)
08-17-2020 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2582 by Tangle
08-17-2020 2:29 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
None of those things make any sense to non-cosmologists.
Hawking's instanton that he invented imaginary time for the instanton to pop into existence which would also require a vacuum.
There is zero evidence to support the instanton so very few scientist accepted the hypothesis.
Tangle writes:
A universe existing forever is not understandable
That was the Standard Theory until Hubble discovered the universe was expanding.
Einstein believed in an eternal static universe so much he created his fudge factor instead of accepting the fact the universe had to have a beginning to exist. The universe having a beginning to exist required a creator.
Tangle writes:
There is nothing outside the universe
I have been told that, But how do you know there is nothing outside the universe?
Tangle writes:
That's pagan superstition.
I don't believe in pagan superstition. Neither do I believe in an answer of "we don't know". We will just go on assumptions which I don't believe in either.
Tangle writes:
Which is not A Creator is it?
If it causes the universe t begin to exist it is.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2582 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 2:29 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2589 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2586 of 3207 (881066)
08-17-2020 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 2584 by ringo
08-17-2020 9:21 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
You start at a point on the time line and you move forward. You can not remove time like you can remove apples. You can not get back to "no time".
I never said anything about removing time.
I did say T=0 is not a point on the time line.
It is not a point anywhere. It is a statement that Time=Zero and you can not get existence of time out of Zero time. Just like you can't get an apple out of Zero apples.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2584 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 9:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2588 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:14 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2587 of 3207 (881067)
08-17-2020 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 2583 by ringo
08-17-2020 9:16 AM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
You would still be dead.
ringo writes:
I couldn't care less what you accept.
Good glad we got that settled.
ringo writes:
The only evidence we have is scientific.
Then would you please present any scientific evidence you have.
ringo writes:
There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
Could you present just one.
ringo writes:
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.
Could you be very specific and write down each one.
Or at least give me one of those scientific error.
I can find translation errors on page one but no scientific error.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2583 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 9:16 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2590 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:36 PM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2588 of 3207 (881068)
08-17-2020 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 2586 by ICANT
08-17-2020 11:24 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
I never said anything about removing time.
You compared time to apples and you talked about removing apples until you had zero apples. Clearly that does not work with time.
ICANT writes:
I did say T=0 is not a point on the time line.
And you were wrong.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2586 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:24 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2591 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:45 PM ringo has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2589 of 3207 (881069)
08-17-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2585 by ICANT
08-17-2020 11:17 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
So what caused the uncaused cause ICANT?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2585 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:17 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2592 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:59 PM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2590 of 3207 (881070)
08-17-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2587 by ICANT
08-17-2020 11:37 AM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
Could you present just one.
The Book of the Dead, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Iliad and Odyssey, the Tao Te Ching, the Edda, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Tantras, the Qur'an, the Talmud, the Midrash, the Zohar, the Book of Mormon, Dianetics... and those are only the ones I've heard of.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.
Could you be very specific and write down each one.
Or at least give me one of those scientific error.
Chapter one, verse two has water before light, verse two has light before sun and moon; verse eleven has plants before sun and moon....
ICANT writes:
I can find translation errors on page one but no scientific error.
You know as little about translation as you do about science, so your opinions on the matter aren't worth much.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2587 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 11:37 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2597 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 1:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2591 of 3207 (881071)
08-17-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2588 by ringo
08-17-2020 12:14 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
And you were wrong.
How can you have a time line unless you have time?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2588 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2593 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 1:03 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2592 of 3207 (881073)
08-17-2020 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2589 by Tangle
08-17-2020 12:17 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
So what caused the uncaused cause ICANT?
I have not proposed an uncaused cause.
Scientist is the ones that have done that.
Imaginary time.
instantion
God particle
pea sized universe
I propose an eternal existing universe just not in the form we see it today.
The Bible is a book that tells me how God took the existing energy and formed the universe and everything in it out of that energy.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2589 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2594 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 4:35 PM ICANT has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2593 of 3207 (881075)
08-17-2020 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2591 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:45 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
How can you have a time line unless you have time?
We don't "have" time like we "have" apples.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2591 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:45 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2595 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:07 AM ringo has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2594 of 3207 (881080)
08-17-2020 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2592 by ICANT
08-17-2020 12:59 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
I propose an eternal existing universe just not in the form we see it today.
The Bible is a book that tells me how God took the existing energy and formed the universe and everything in it out of that energy.
Where did that god come from ICANT? Where did the ,existing energy come from?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2592 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2020 12:59 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2599 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 2:20 PM Tangle has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2595 of 3207 (881101)
08-18-2020 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2593 by ringo
08-17-2020 1:03 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
We don't "have" time like we "have" apples.
Could you give me your definition of time so we can get on the same page as I think I am talking about one thing and you are talking about a totally different thing, or entity.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2593 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 1:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2596 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:20 PM ICANT has replied

  
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