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obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4115 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 1 of 18 (489397)
11-26-2008 6:48 PM


So there's this rabid creationist that has infested a board I go to. I asked him to come here. He looked and then outright refused.
Practicing scientists? PHds? People who actually work in the field?
OH NOES!
Sad isn't it how some creationists refuse to put their beliefs to the test.
HugeDomains.com
Edited by obvious Child, : Link provided.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by anglagard, posted 11-27-2008 12:52 AM obvious Child has not replied
 Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-27-2008 1:12 AM obvious Child has replied
 Message 9 by johnfolton, posted 11-27-2008 11:25 PM obvious Child has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 2 of 18 (489425)
11-27-2008 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by obvious Child
11-26-2008 6:48 PM


When confronted with YECs, I used to say go to talk origins and now say here or dreamcatcher, but it is always treated as the fire that could burn the precious.
Considering the massive amount of fear involved in having to squash all contrary opinions, be it Uncommon Dissent or the usual round of so-called Christian or other religious/political discussion forums, I find it refreshing to find places where there is no censorship of content beyond obvious breakdown into childish name-calling.
One has to admire the courage of those who argue against science, basic teachings of religions, popular and indeed even what I would consider ethical opinions, the lessons of history, and so on, even if I do not admire their stance. At least a few forums provide any opposition their best shot and in the great tradition of ancient Western Philosophy, namely there are two (ABE-or more) sides to every story, at least a place they can try to convince others of the supposed rightness of their positions. It is extremely important to provide an outlet to that voice. As Voltaire said "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" (paraphrase from memory).
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by obvious Child, posted 11-26-2008 6:48 PM obvious Child has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 18 (489429)
11-27-2008 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by obvious Child
11-26-2008 6:48 PM


Needs better title - Needs link to other site
My evo bias is stopping me from closing down this topic - It does strike me rather like the evo counterpart to creo whining.
We'll see if the topic remains open. In the meantime, how about:
1) A good topic title that helps define the theme of this topic (edit via editing message 1).
2) A link to the other site (also via message 1 edit).
Adminnemooseus
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change ID.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by obvious Child, posted 11-26-2008 6:48 PM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by obvious Child, posted 11-27-2008 3:43 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 18 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-28-2008 2:05 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4115 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 4 of 18 (489443)
11-27-2008 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Adminnemooseus
11-27-2008 1:12 AM


Re: Needs better title - Needs link to other site
Actually this isn't just a singular case. I offered this site to other rabid creationists and not a single one registered after taking a look. Meanwhile I see evolution backers registering on hardcore literalist forums (and getting promptly banned for posting facts). Interesting isn't it?
But I suppose deliberate willful ignorance aren't solely limited to this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 11-27-2008 1:12 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Larni, posted 11-27-2008 9:50 AM obvious Child has replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 5 of 18 (489451)
11-27-2008 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by obvious Child
11-27-2008 3:43 AM


Re: Needs better title - Needs link to other site
Interesting site, same old PRATTs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by obvious Child, posted 11-27-2008 3:43 AM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by obvious Child, posted 11-27-2008 8:11 PM Larni has not replied

obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4115 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 6 of 18 (489490)
11-27-2008 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Larni
11-27-2008 9:50 AM


Re: Needs better title - Needs link to other site
Pretty much. None of them will come here.
There's something about this site that scares the living crap out of creationists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Larni, posted 11-27-2008 9:50 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NosyNed, posted 11-27-2008 8:22 PM obvious Child has not replied
 Message 8 by Peg, posted 11-27-2008 10:30 PM obvious Child has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 7 of 18 (489492)
11-27-2008 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by obvious Child
11-27-2008 8:11 PM


So why do we have any creos?
[qs]There's something about this site that scares the living crap out of creationists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by obvious Child, posted 11-27-2008 8:11 PM obvious Child has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 8 of 18 (489506)
11-27-2008 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by obvious Child
11-27-2008 8:11 PM


Re: Needs better title - Needs link to other site
i dont think thats true
i see plenty of creationists on this site

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by obvious Child, posted 11-27-2008 8:11 PM obvious Child has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 9 of 18 (489520)
11-27-2008 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by obvious Child
11-26-2008 6:48 PM


Practicing scientists? PHds? People who actually work in the field?
I think were all awed at the contributions of creation science just sit back and enjoy a documentary of those who actually work in the field of science talk about soil the foundation of life.
November 09, 2008
The Wonder of Creation--Soil: Foundation of Life, Part 1
November 16, 2008
The Wonder of Creation--Soil: Sustainer of Life, Part 2
November 23, 2008
The Wonder of Creation--Soil and the Work of Life, Part 3
http://www.rbc.org/...tv/day-of-discovery/past-programs.aspx
P.S. Creation science is based on the bible agreeing with genetics, natural selection, mutations, soils, biology, math, physics, geometry, water chemistry, chemistry, fossil age being young, etc... If you take the atheism out of evolution you have creation science. right? Since atheism by the courts has been determined to be a religion its tenents should be excised from the theory of evolution as its presently being taught in the classrooms. right? Otherwise the atheism in evolution is violating the seperation of church and state.
Its time to reword all the paleontology textbooks that infer the fossils are old, right? etc...Its a clear violation of church and state unless they allow the creationists scientific data that shows the fossils are all dating young, etc...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LAW OF THE LAND
Court rules atheism a religion
Decides 1st Amendment protects prison inmate's right to start study group
Page not found - WND
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by obvious Child, posted 11-26-2008 6:48 PM obvious Child has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by bluescat48, posted 11-27-2008 11:44 PM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 11 by subbie, posted 11-27-2008 11:51 PM johnfolton has replied

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 10 of 18 (489525)
11-27-2008 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by johnfolton
11-27-2008 11:25 PM


If you take the atheism out of evolution you have creation science. right?
No you have evolution. To get creation science you add the word science to the creation myth. Creation science doesn't exist.
I don't care if the supreme court declares Atheism as a religion since there is no Atheistic dogma. We don't have a book of myths, or a bunch of archaic rituals, only the lack in belief of any deity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by johnfolton, posted 11-27-2008 11:25 PM johnfolton has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by subbie, posted 11-27-2008 11:55 PM bluescat48 has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 11 of 18 (489526)
11-27-2008 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by johnfolton
11-27-2008 11:25 PM


quote:
If you take the atheism out of evolution you have creation science. right?
Wrong. There is no atheism in evolution. If you think there is, please find one scientific paper on evolution that talks about atheism.
quote:
Since atheism by the courts has been determined to be a religion its tenents [sic] should be excised from the theory of evolution as its presently being taught in the classrooms. right?
Wrong. Evolution as it's presently being taught in the classroom has nothing to do with atheism. If you think it is, please find one textbook on evolution that talks about atheism.
quote:
Otherwise the atheism in evolution is violating the seperation [sic] of church and state.
Wrong. Even assuming that atheism is a religion, the mere fact that evolution is consistent with one part of atheism doesn't mean that teaching evolution amounts to an establishment of religion. The law recognizes the religious institution of marriage, but that doesn't amount to an establishment of religion. Theft is illegal and it's prohibited by the ten commandments. That doesn't mean that criminalizing theft amounts to an establishment of religion.
Your ignorance about science is dwarfed when compared to your ignorance about the law.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by johnfolton, posted 11-27-2008 11:25 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by johnfolton, posted 11-28-2008 12:56 AM subbie has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 12 of 18 (489527)
11-27-2008 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by bluescat48
11-27-2008 11:44 PM


quote:
I don't care if the supreme court declares Atheism as a religion since there is no Atheistic dogma. We don't have a book of myths, or a bunch of archaic rituals, only the lack in belief of any deity.
Actually, it wouldn't bother me if courts recognized atheism as a religion for certain purposes under the law. While it may be true that you don't recognize any atheistic dogma, there's nothing inherently inconsistent with someone else having one. Of course, the mere fact that a court recognizes atheism as a religion for one particular purpose, or under one particular set of circumstances, that doesn't mean that it's equivalent to all other religions for all other purposes.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by bluescat48, posted 11-27-2008 11:44 PM bluescat48 has not replied

johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 13 of 18 (489529)
11-28-2008 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by subbie
11-27-2008 11:51 PM


the mere fact that evolution is consistent with one part of atheism doesn't mean that teaching evolution amounts to an establishment of religion.
It still is promoting atheism which is a religion to the exclusion of creationism's. Lets in all fairness excise the atheism out of evolution. Teaching evolution is a clear violation of the Constitution. right?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thomas Jefferson was a man of deep religious conviction - his conviction was that religion was a very personal matter, one which the government had no business getting involved in.
Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence, and therefore all men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, and that no particular sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.
Constitutional Topic: The Constitution and Religion - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by subbie, posted 11-27-2008 11:51 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by subbie, posted 11-28-2008 1:01 AM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 15 by Coyote, posted 11-28-2008 1:03 AM johnfolton has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 14 of 18 (489530)
11-28-2008 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by johnfolton
11-28-2008 12:56 AM


Despite your clever attempt at subterfuge, after thorough analysis of your statement, I note that you refused to respond to my request for evidence supporting your claim that atheism is part of evolution, or part of how evolution is taught. I am quite confident, based on my knowledge of the matter, that there is no such evidence, thus your claim is unsupportable. If you again reply in this thread without providing such evidence, I shall take that as your concession that no such evidence exists and your claim is unsupportable.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by johnfolton, posted 11-28-2008 12:56 AM johnfolton has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 15 of 18 (489531)
11-28-2008 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by johnfolton
11-28-2008 12:56 AM


Atheism is a religion? Not!
It still is promoting atheism which is a religion. Lets in all fairness excise the atheism out of evolution. right?
Fine by me. You end up in the same place anyway. But I can prove that evolution is not a religion--in six years of grad school not once did they pass the collection plate. That's definitive!
What you really want is not to take the "atheism out of evolution" but to have your particular brand of religion dominate evolution and for evolution to be subservient, as all of science was back in what are now called the Dark Ages.
That's not going to happen. Since The Enlightenment, we no longer have to kowtow to the shamans.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by johnfolton, posted 11-28-2008 12:56 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 17 by johnfolton, posted 11-28-2008 1:17 AM Coyote has not replied

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