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Author Topic:   EM space drive
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 46 of 51 (735418)
08-14-2014 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by NoNukes
08-13-2014 9:19 PM


I don't think it's an exception to the conservation of momentum at all, if it was real that is, just like how airplanes don't actually defy gravity. It does take some understanding of physics that most people lack.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by NoNukes, posted 08-13-2014 9:19 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 08-14-2014 9:26 AM Taz has replied

  
Dogmafood
Member (Idle past 348 days)
Posts: 1815
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010


Message 47 of 51 (735419)
08-14-2014 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by NoNukes
08-13-2014 9:19 PM


The drive is almost certainly a hoax that a few people at Nasa have been hoodwinked into accepting.
It will work just fine. They just didn't mention the part where you add the popcorn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by NoNukes, posted 08-13-2014 9:19 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 51 (735422)
08-14-2014 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Taz
08-14-2014 7:01 AM


It does take some understanding of physics that most people lack.
"Some understanding of physics"? So you understand how it works?
Nobody seems to be able to explain how the drive might work without using Star Trek like faux science talk. But I'd welcome the opportunity to read your attempt to do better.
Regarding terrestrial applications, here is a link from what I'm calling the snake oil site.
EmDrive - FAQ
quote:
Q. How can the EmDrive produce enough thrust for terrestrial applications?
A. The second generation engines will be capable of producing a specific thrust of 30kN/kW. Thus for 1 kilowatt (typical of the power in a microwave oven) a static thrust of 3 tonnes can be obtained, which is enough to support a large car. This is clearly adequate for terrestrial transport applications.
The static thrust/power ratio is calculated assuming a superconducting EmDrive with a Q of 5 x 109. This Q value is routinely achieved in superconducting cavities.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Taz, posted 08-14-2014 7:01 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Taz, posted 08-14-2014 9:54 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 49 of 51 (735423)
08-14-2014 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by NoNukes
08-14-2014 9:26 AM


NoNukes writes:
So you understand how it works
Oh, the irony! Happening right on a forum where people have intellectual debates and whine about quote mining, you went ahead and quote-mined me.
I was talking about airplanes.
I've also said that this could very well be another cold fusion debacle. But the trekkie in me is really hoping it's for real.
Regarding this thing violating the conservation of momentum, I was saying if this thing was for real it would not be violating the conservation of momentum. Much in the same way that airplanes don't defy gravity even though they would appear to. It just takes some understanding of physics (about lift and thrust) that most people don't have adequate understanding of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by NoNukes, posted 08-14-2014 9:26 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by NoNukes, posted 08-14-2014 3:24 PM Taz has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 50 of 51 (735430)
08-14-2014 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Taz
08-13-2014 9:35 AM


I've seen this line of questioning before. The first light bulb was dim as hell. Imagine if people judged the technology and dismissed it off hand because the prototype was too dim for practical use. We'd still be using candles at night. So, instead of focusing on how dim the prototype light bulb was, instead try to see that there was light without fire.
If someone was genuinely curious about, say, how big of a room your newly invented dim light bulb could fill with light, how could they ask the question without a guy like you seeing that as impeding the progress of the technology?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Taz, posted 08-13-2014 9:35 AM Taz has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 51 (735434)
08-14-2014 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Taz
08-14-2014 9:54 AM


Oh, the irony! Happening right on a forum where people have intellectual debates and whine about quote mining, you went ahead and quote-mined me.
It was not a quote mine. Your statement suggested that you had an impression of how momentum was conserved. Here is the entire quote.
I don't think it's an exception to the conservation of momentum at all, if it was real that is, just like how airplanes don't actually defy gravity. It does take some understanding of physics that most people lack.
I've looked at a few discussions on the internet, and it seems that every citation of physicists like Sean Carroll and others pointing out the problems with the em-drive explanations are met with expressions of absolute belief that the drive is working. Apparently, any skepticism whatsoever comes from old physics fogies who need to get out of the way of progress.
Airplanes don't "appear" to be violating any laws of physics. There is no law saying that objects cannot move upwards against gravity. Any fool can see that birds fly. On the other hand, there are a couple of laws of physics which do not allow the center of gravity of an object to change its motion unless an external force operates on it.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Taz, posted 08-14-2014 9:54 AM Taz has not replied

  
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