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Author Topic:   Why are all Christians atheists?
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 16 of 161 (394721)
04-12-2007 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
04-12-2007 6:53 PM


No, you misunderstand.
I'm not saying mixing up "no" and "what does he look like".
What I'm asking it why they are willing to answer NO to questions like:
"Is Zeus real?"
"Is Thor real?"
"Is Coyote real?"
But then are willing to answer yes to:
"Is real?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 04-12-2007 6:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 17 of 161 (394723)
04-12-2007 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Neutralmind
04-12-2007 6:56 PM


Huh?
Are you honestly trying to equate the scientific process of hypothesis and testing with magic?
Is it that you fundamentaly misunderstand science or is it that you fundamentally misunderstand magic? OR both?

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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 18 of 161 (394724)
04-12-2007 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
04-12-2007 8:39 PM


Re: a few things to consider
Sorry Jar, but that is a cop out.
Fundamentalists hold that someone who worships Zeus is not simply worshiping a misunderstand interpreattion of their own God, but is in fact worshiping a false God.
It's either/or, not both.
Either God exists, or Thor exists. You can not claim Thor = God, because, like I said in the original post, I'm not asking for everyone's personal opinion on the subject, I'm challenging Fundies to explain their ongoing hypocracy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 04-12-2007 8:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 161 (394734)
04-12-2007 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 9:18 PM


Re: a few things to consider
I'm not asking for everyone's personal opinion on the subject, I'm challenging Fundies to explain their ongoing hypocracy
Then fix your friggin topic title.
And if you believe what I posted is a copout, then present your best argument in support of your position.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 161 (394741)
04-12-2007 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 9:11 PM


Nuggin writes:
What I'm asking it why they are willing to answer NO to questions like:
"Is Zeus real?"
"Is Thor real?"
"Is Coyote real?"
What I'm saying is that those questions may not be relevant until after they have decided there is a God of some sort. Don't most fundies claim they have considered other religions and picked the right/best one?

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 31 by nator, posted 04-13-2007 7:34 AM ringo has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3314 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 161 (394744)
04-12-2007 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 9:08 PM


Nuggin writes:
So you think that you could get a fundamentalist to acknowledge that there is some truth to the idea that Thor is a powerful diety and that their God is not the only "one true God"?
So much of the old testament is in regard to god trying to convince the people that he's their only one true god. Everytime I read through the old testament, I always get the impression that god was trying to make people forget the other gods as if he had equals/competitions.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 161 (394748)
04-13-2007 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 5:29 PM


All Fundamental Christians are Atheists in regards to Zeus, Apollo, Thor, Vishnu, Coyote, the Hero Twins, and many many more Gods.
What gives?
I'm a christian although not a fundamentalist. I don't consider myself an atheist WRT all those other gods because I accept that "a god" exists. I just think that they were wrong or misinformed or ignorant about who god is. So I don't consider myself an atheist about those gods.
So, what's the deal, Fundies? I've heard over and over how you can discard a mountain of evidence in favor or your particular flavor of magic, but how can you also discard a mountain of magic in favor of magic.
Because, when considering what we do know is true, their interpretation of god is incorrect. But they were correct that the "flavor of magic" does, in fact, exist
What reason do you have to believe that people with as much, if not more, spiritual evidence in the existence of their Gods are some how wrong?
I believe Jesus. I think that he was right(correct), and they were ignorant or misinformed or lacking information.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Nuggin, posted 04-12-2007 5:29 PM Nuggin has replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 161 (394749)
04-13-2007 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 9:02 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
I am saying that the belief in God is a belief in magic
I have a high quality scientific education and I cannot disbelieve "magic", especially magic that is attributed to GOD.
All phenomenon can have natural explanations, but those do not preclude GOD.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 161 (394750)
04-13-2007 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
04-12-2007 11:29 PM


Don't most fundies claim they have considered other religions and picked the right/best one?
I dunno, I'm not a fundie, but I do claim that.
And I don't think that it is coincedence that the one I picked is the same as the one I was raised to believe.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 161 (394751)
04-13-2007 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
04-12-2007 7:59 PM


Re: Whats The Deal?
Do you mean that it is only an opinion that any superstition is made up, or just the one you subscribe to?
When the opinion is on something like a god, there isn't really anything that is evident that the god is not "made up".

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 161 (394752)
04-13-2007 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 9:18 PM


Re: a few things to consider
, I'm not asking for everyone's personal opinion on the subject, I'm challenging Fundies to explain their ongoing hypocracy
Shit. I'm off topic.

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 27 of 161 (394760)
04-13-2007 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nuggin
04-12-2007 5:29 PM


Not a good argument
All Fundamental Christians are Atheists in regards to Zeus, Apollo, Thor, Vishnu, Coyote, the Hero Twins, and many many more Gods.
What gives?
This is the same argument that you hear a lot from Sam Harris and I think it is deeply flawed.
The problem with it is that Christians or Moslems are not atheists with respect to other Gods due to the basic absurdity of said Gods. They are atheists with respect to other Gods because their holy books tell them to be.
Zeus' existence is not considered false because the concept of zeus is absurd. Zeus' existence is considered false because the Bible says that there is only 1 God.
There is nothing to be gained by calling religious people hypocrites because they don't accept the same rational for the rejection of other Gods. The argument fails because they are not rejecting other Gods for rational reasons, but rather religious ones.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 30 by Nuggin, posted 04-13-2007 2:43 AM Jazzns has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1489 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 161 (394761)
04-13-2007 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jazzns
04-13-2007 1:05 AM


Re: Not a good argument
There is nothing to be gained by calling religious people hypocrites because they don't accept the same rational for the rejection of other Gods.
I think you're misconstruing what the argument is intended to mean. It's not usually offered to portray the religious as hypocrites; it's usually offered in response to a believer who says "I can't imagine/it's not possible to not believe in God."
In that case it's highly appropriate to point out, in reply, all of the various and sundry Gods that the speaker already doesn't believe in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jazzns, posted 04-13-2007 1:05 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 29 of 161 (394765)
04-13-2007 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by New Cat's Eye
04-13-2007 12:08 AM


So if I understand you correctly, you are saying --
People who believe in Zeus are wrong because they think that God's name is actually Zeus, but it's not, it's God.
But, the only evidence you have for this is that you believe that "God's" name is "God" and not "Zeus", when there is just as much evidence that the opposite is true. That what you believe to be "God" is actually Zeus, and you are simply mistaken in your belief.
May Zeus forgive you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-13-2007 12:08 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2515 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 30 of 161 (394767)
04-13-2007 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jazzns
04-13-2007 1:05 AM


Re: Not a good argument
The argument fails because they are not rejecting other Gods for rational reasons, but rather religious ones.
But they are choosing which religious faith to follow. They are choosing (let's go out on a limb and say "rationally") to believe that their particular faith holds more merit than any other given faith.
It just so happens that believing their particular faith precludes belief in other faiths.
However, there is no more evidence for belief in their faith than there is for belief in any other faith. As such, they are discarding all Gods save one out of hand based on the same criteria they are using to prop up the one they choose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jazzns, posted 04-13-2007 1:05 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
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