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Author | Topic: Tell Him Jesus Sent You | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Calypso writes: Thats an issue. IF God appeared in front of you, what would be the reason to ignore Him(Her? :eek I hope you answered him with at least a standard "If you're God then you already know." Or some such. I'd like to hear what your response was. Obviously part of this whole issue is the awareness and influence of Gods presence. IF you were to casually look up and say "Oh! Its you....." then God would not be quite as influential as one would presuppose. The issue is whether Gods presence supercedes our own right to pick and choose our acknowledgement.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3597 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Welcome to EvC, Calypso. Congrats on a great pen name!
quote: Calypso: I hope you answered him with at least a standard "If you're God then you already know." Or some such. I'd like to hear what your response was.
At the time it would have been something like that. 'You're God. You know the answer better than I do.' I don't really remember. I do remember the response they wanted. It was the Anselmic Doctrine of Satisfaction as processed for mass consumption by the inventors of Chicken McNuggets. God isn't supposed to see you standing there. He's supposed to see Jesus standing there. So you have to say something that will conjure Jesus to be seen standing there instead of you. God forbid that God actually sees you standing there because then you're barbecue. That kind of thing. Basically, if you gave the Evangelism Exploders an answer without the word 'Jesus' in it, they took it as a wrong answer. Jesus is the big brother whose ID you need to borrow to enter the club. No ID, God calls the bouncers. Three months ago a similar question was asked by one of our sterner fundies. He didn't ask what you would say, just where God would send you and why. I played the game straight in Message 24. How about you, Calypso? ___ Archer All species are transitional.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: The issue is whether Gods presence supercedes our own right to pick and choose our acknowledgement. So, did God give us free will or did He just lend it to us?Are we expected to give it up when we face Him? quote: My answer might be, "Let me look around first and I'll decide if I want to stay." If we do have free will, the issue is not so much "Why should God sell us His product?" as "Why should we buy it?" Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3597 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
quote: Ringo: My answer might be, "Let me look around first and I'll decide if I want to stay." I enjoyed your answer in that November thread I linked to. Paraphrasing: you said if heaven was full of intolerant fundie zealots you'd rather spend your eternity with the rejects. ___ Archer All species are transitional.
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Calypso Junior Member (Idle past 5155 days) Posts: 28 Joined: |
Archer Opterix writes: Welcome to EvC, Calypso. Congrats on a great pen name Thank you very much for that warm welcome! I sure have enjoyed my time reading and responding to some of the great minds I find on this board. And no that was not sarcasm I assure you. I named myself after the song by John Denver just to let you know in case you were not aware. Not sure if I mentioned that yet in any of my previous posts. I used to lurk a lot more than I would post in my early days here. For some reason that song just spoke to me at around the time I was deciding on a nickname. How did you choose your nickname if I may ask?
Archer Opterix writes: Three months ago a similar question was asked by one of our sterner fundies. He didn't ask what you would say, just where God would send you and why. I played the game straight in Message 24. How about you, Calypso? My response would simply be that in order for me to know what god would do with me, I would have to be god, which I am of course not. In my belief system, only god would know the answer to that, no one else. Anyone that exclaims they do would fall in to one of a few categories, either deluded, mistaken/confused, lying, or simply joking about taiwan with wider sidewalks. A joke which I might add I enjoyed very much! Well put!
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3597 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Calypso: I named myself after the song by John Denver just to let you know in case you were not aware. I hadn't thought of the song but had wondered if you intended a reference to Cousteau's ship. It's also a good musical name. Invokes steel drums, beach cookouts, palm fronds, and colorful drinks with paper umbrellas.
How did you choose your nickname if I may ask? I like Archaeopteryx for a lot of reasons. I made a proper name out of the genus name to avoid confusion with the actual Jurassic creature.
Anyone that exclaims they [know God's mind] would fall in to one of a few categories, either deluded, mistaken/confused, lying, or simply joking about taiwan with wider sidewalks. Thanks, but I wasn't simply joking. The OP defined heaven as bliss. It then asked two hypothetical questions. Hypothetical questions invite hypothetical answers.
quote: As good a hypothesis as any. ___ Edited by Archer Opterix, : html. Archer All species are transitional.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Ringo writes: No, but we are expected to use our free will to make a choice. Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness...and indicates that we already have made a decision.
So, did God give us free will or did He just lend it to us?Are we expected to give it up when we face Him?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness...and indicates that we already have made a decision. Why? Could it also be a sign of lack of evidence? Or conflicting evidence? Or a complicated or important decision that requires due consideration? Or tentativity knowing that future evidence might lead to reevaluation? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Jar writes: I suppose so, if one is honest. Some folks will feel more comfortable saying "I don't know..." forever, however....and I suppose that God (IF God exists) would surely understand the honesty of reservation. Could it also be a sign of lack of evidence? Or conflicting evidence? Or a complicated or important decision that requires due consideration? Or tentatively knowing that future evidence might lead to reevaluation? The counter accusation touted by the infamous Cult Of Ignorance™ is that humans, being unwilling and incapable of accepting God by nature...will continue not to accept God if left alone.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness.... Don't confuse taking a long time to make a decision with "wishy washiness". Important decisions should not be made hastily and plans should be as flexible as possible.
...and indicates that we already have made a decision. What's wrong with deciding not to decide? I was at a friend's house for supper and her ten-year-old grandson asked me what I wanted for dessert. I told him to surprize me, so he surprized me with Cool Whip on a cracker. Being overly decisive takes the fun out of life. Do you think that's what God wants from us? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The counter accusation touted by the infamous Cult Of Ignorance™ is that humans, being unwilling and incapable of accepting God by nature...will continue not to accept God if left alone. More jabberwocky. And just why should anyone "accept God?" What possible business is it of anybody whether someone other than themselves has "accepted God" (what ever that means)? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Jar writes: I'm a Jabberwockian specialist!
More jabberwocky. Jar writes: No particular reason, although I also would ask why anyone should reject God for any reason whatsoever. Absence of Evidence does not equate to evidence of absence. And just why should anyone "accept God?" I used to be an evangelical that believed that it was our collective responsibility (being the enlightened ones, of course) to educate the poor unenlightened masses who were blinded by deception. NOW, of course, I believe that God draws people unto Himself...thus the only thing I am expected to do is live my best and do what I know is right.
Jar writes: Its not about business. We are rehashing an old conversation here...played out a thousand similar ways by thousands of people.
What possible business is it of anybody whether someone other than themselves has "accepted God" (what ever that means)?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Ringo writes: True. Choosing the right Deity could be viewed as important by some and irrelevant by others, since the proper Deity would be in control by default...regardless of our decisions to accept or reject the concept.
Don't confuse taking a long time to make a decision with "wishy washiness". Important decisions should not be made hastily and plans should be as flexible as possible. Ringo writes: Nothing if you are honest with yourself. If you feel an inner unction, however, you would be wise to not dismiss it as an overactive stomach. I can't really speak for anyone other than myself...but when I get an inner unction, I follow it just to be safe.
What's wrong with deciding not to decide? Ringo writes: Well....if I can hypothesize the emotions and feelings of God in any way, I would say that God expects us to be honest, open, and willing to embrace Him (Her?) in whatever way that we understand God. I guess that if I were the only guy on the planet that believed in God as I understood Him, I would not be responsible for being His saleman. Being overly decisive takes the fun out of life. Do you think that's what God wants from us? (That is a change from how I used to think! )
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You still haven't explained what accepting God means or why it is of any importance.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
This is where many of us differ and part company beliefwise.
Personally, I believe that God desires that we make an attempt to acknowledge that we ourselves individually and collectively do not know everything nor will we ever and that it is ok to be humble and in awe. This is an individual thing, however...and not something to be taught and/or forced on others.
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