Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Tell Him Jesus Sent You
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 61 (383861)
02-09-2007 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Calypso
02-09-2007 9:57 AM


Re: What would I say?
Calypso writes:
I hope you answered him with at least a standard "If you're God then you already know." Or some such. I'd like to hear what your response was.
Thats an issue. IF God appeared in front of you, what would be the reason to ignore Him(Her? :eek
Obviously part of this whole issue is the awareness and influence of Gods presence. IF you were to casually look up and say "Oh! Its you....." then God would not be quite as influential as one would presuppose.
The issue is whether Gods presence supercedes our own right to pick and choose our acknowledgement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Calypso, posted 02-09-2007 9:57 AM Calypso has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 02-09-2007 2:49 PM Phat has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 17 of 61 (383916)
02-09-2007 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Calypso
02-09-2007 9:57 AM


Re: What would I say?
Welcome to EvC, Calypso. Congrats on a great pen name!
quote:
...the pitch opened with a question. 'If you died and met God today, and God asked you why he should let you into heaven, what would you say?'
Calypso:
I hope you answered him with at least a standard "If you're God then you already know." Or some such. I'd like to hear what your response was.
At the time it would have been something like that. 'You're God. You know the answer better than I do.' I don't really remember.
I do remember the response they wanted. It was the Anselmic Doctrine of Satisfaction as processed for mass consumption by the inventors of Chicken McNuggets. God isn't supposed to see you standing there. He's supposed to see Jesus standing there. So you have to say something that will conjure Jesus to be seen standing there instead of you. God forbid that God actually sees you standing there because then you're barbecue. That kind of thing.
Basically, if you gave the Evangelism Exploders an answer without the word 'Jesus' in it, they took it as a wrong answer. Jesus is the big brother whose ID you need to borrow to enter the club. No ID, God calls the bouncers.
Three months ago a similar question was asked by one of our sterner fundies. He didn't ask what you would say, just where God would send you and why. I played the game straight in Message 24.
How about you, Calypso?
___

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Calypso, posted 02-09-2007 9:57 AM Calypso has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Calypso, posted 02-09-2007 6:45 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 18 of 61 (383925)
02-09-2007 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
02-09-2007 12:09 PM


Re: What would I say?
Phat writes:
The issue is whether Gods presence supercedes our own right to pick and choose our acknowledgement.
So, did God give us free will or did He just lend it to us?
Are we expected to give it up when we face Him?
quote:
'If you died and met God today, and God asked you why he should let you into heaven, what would you say?' Message 14
My answer might be, "Let me look around first and I'll decide if I want to stay."
If we do have free will, the issue is not so much "Why should God sell us His product?" as "Why should we buy it?"

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 02-09-2007 12:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-09-2007 3:11 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:09 AM ringo has replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 19 of 61 (383936)
02-09-2007 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
02-09-2007 2:49 PM


Re: What would I say?
quote:
'If you died and met God today, and God asked you why he should let you into heaven, what would you say?'
(Message 14)
Ringo:
My answer might be, "Let me look around first and I'll decide if I want to stay."
I enjoyed your answer in that November thread I linked to. Paraphrasing: you said if heaven was full of intolerant fundie zealots you'd rather spend your eternity with the rejects.
___

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 02-09-2007 2:49 PM ringo has not replied

  
Calypso
Junior Member (Idle past 5155 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-05-2006


Message 20 of 61 (384001)
02-09-2007 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Archer Opteryx
02-09-2007 2:39 PM


Re: What would I say?
Archer Opterix writes:
Welcome to EvC, Calypso. Congrats on a great pen name
Thank you very much for that warm welcome! I sure have enjoyed my time reading and responding to some of the great minds I find on this board. And no that was not sarcasm I assure you. I named myself after the song by John Denver just to let you know in case you were not aware. Not sure if I mentioned that yet in any of my previous posts. I used to lurk a lot more than I would post in my early days here. For some reason that song just spoke to me at around the time I was deciding on a nickname. How did you choose your nickname if I may ask?
Archer Opterix writes:
Three months ago a similar question was asked by one of our sterner fundies. He didn't ask what you would say, just where God would send you and why. I played the game straight in Message 24.
How about you, Calypso?
My response would simply be that in order for me to know what god would do with me, I would have to be god, which I am of course not. In my belief system, only god would know the answer to that, no one else. Anyone that exclaims they do would fall in to one of a few categories, either deluded, mistaken/confused, lying, or simply joking about taiwan with wider sidewalks. A joke which I might add I enjoyed very much! Well put!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-09-2007 2:39 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-10-2007 11:01 AM Calypso has not replied

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3597 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 21 of 61 (384158)
02-10-2007 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Calypso
02-09-2007 6:45 PM


Re: What would I say?
Calypso:
I named myself after the song by John Denver just to let you know in case you were not aware.
I hadn't thought of the song but had wondered if you intended a reference to Cousteau's ship.
It's also a good musical name. Invokes steel drums, beach cookouts, palm fronds, and colorful drinks with paper umbrellas.
How did you choose your nickname if I may ask?
I like Archaeopteryx for a lot of reasons. I made a proper name out of the genus name to avoid confusion with the actual Jurassic creature.
Anyone that exclaims they [know God's mind] would fall in to one of a few categories, either deluded, mistaken/confused, lying, or simply joking about taiwan with wider sidewalks.
Thanks, but I wasn't simply joking.
The OP defined heaven as bliss. It then asked two hypothetical questions.
Hypothetical questions invite hypothetical answers.
quote:
OP: If you were to die a few minutes from now where do you think God would send you?
AO: He would send me to a place like Taiwan, only with cleaner air and wider sidewalks.
OP: And why do you think he would send you there?
AO: Because he likes my company and knows I would appreciate it.
As good a hypothesis as any.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.

Archer
All species are transitional.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Calypso, posted 02-09-2007 6:45 PM Calypso has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 61 (384375)
02-11-2007 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
02-09-2007 2:49 PM


Re: What would I say?
Ringo writes:
So, did God give us free will or did He just lend it to us?
Are we expected to give it up when we face Him?
No, but we are expected to use our free will to make a choice. Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness...and indicates that we already have made a decision.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 02-09-2007 2:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:17 AM Phat has replied
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 02-11-2007 11:23 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 61 (384379)
02-11-2007 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
02-11-2007 11:09 AM


Re: What would I say?
Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness...and indicates that we already have made a decision.
Why? Could it also be a sign of lack of evidence? Or conflicting evidence? Or a complicated or important decision that requires due consideration? Or tentativity knowing that future evidence might lead to reevaluation?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:23 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 61 (384382)
02-11-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
02-11-2007 11:17 AM


Re: What would I say?
Jar writes:
Could it also be a sign of lack of evidence? Or conflicting evidence? Or a complicated or important decision that requires due consideration? Or tentatively knowing that future evidence might lead to reevaluation?
I suppose so, if one is honest. Some folks will feel more comfortable saying "I don't know..." forever, however....and I suppose that God (IF God exists) would surely understand the honesty of reservation.
The counter accusation touted by the infamous Cult Of Ignorance™ is that humans, being unwilling and incapable of accepting God by nature...will continue not to accept God if left alone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:17 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:31 AM Phat has replied
 Message 40 by nator, posted 02-13-2007 9:23 AM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 25 of 61 (384383)
02-11-2007 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
02-11-2007 11:09 AM


Re: What would I say?
Phat writes:
Wishy washiness and taking a long time to make a decision is indicative of stubbornness....
Don't confuse taking a long time to make a decision with "wishy washiness". Important decisions should not be made hastily and plans should be as flexible as possible.
...and indicates that we already have made a decision.
What's wrong with deciding not to decide?
I was at a friend's house for supper and her ten-year-old grandson asked me what I wanted for dessert. I told him to surprize me, so he surprized me with Cool Whip on a cracker.
Being overly decisive takes the fun out of life. Do you think that's what God wants from us?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:09 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:56 AM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 26 of 61 (384385)
02-11-2007 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
02-11-2007 11:23 AM


Re: What would I say?
The counter accusation touted by the infamous Cult Of Ignorance™ is that humans, being unwilling and incapable of accepting God by nature...will continue not to accept God if left alone.
More jabberwocky.
And just why should anyone "accept God?"
What possible business is it of anybody whether someone other than themselves has "accepted God" (what ever that means)?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:47 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 61 (384389)
02-11-2007 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
02-11-2007 11:31 AM


Re: What would I say?
Jar writes:
More jabberwocky.
I'm a Jabberwockian specialist!
Jar writes:
And just why should anyone "accept God?"
No particular reason, although I also would ask why anyone should reject God for any reason whatsoever. Absence of Evidence does not equate to evidence of absence.
I used to be an evangelical that believed that it was our collective responsibility (being the enlightened ones, of course) to educate the poor unenlightened masses who were blinded by deception. NOW, of course, I believe that God draws people unto Himself...thus the only thing I am expected to do is live my best and do what I know is right.
Jar writes:
What possible business is it of anybody whether someone other than themselves has "accepted God" (what ever that means)?
Its not about business. We are rehashing an old conversation here...played out a thousand similar ways by thousands of people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:31 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:58 AM Phat has replied
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 02-12-2007 9:09 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 61 (384392)
02-11-2007 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by ringo
02-11-2007 11:23 AM


Re: What would I say?
Ringo writes:
Don't confuse taking a long time to make a decision with "wishy washiness". Important decisions should not be made hastily and plans should be as flexible as possible.
True. Choosing the right Deity could be viewed as important by some and irrelevant by others, since the proper Deity would be in control by default...regardless of our decisions to accept or reject the concept.
Ringo writes:
What's wrong with deciding not to decide?
Nothing if you are honest with yourself. If you feel an inner unction, however, you would be wise to not dismiss it as an overactive stomach. I can't really speak for anyone other than myself...but when I get an inner unction, I follow it just to be safe.
Ringo writes:
Being overly decisive takes the fun out of life. Do you think that's what God wants from us?
Well....if I can hypothesize the emotions and feelings of God in any way, I would say that God expects us to be honest, open, and willing to embrace Him (Her?) in whatever way that we understand God. I guess that if I were the only guy on the planet that believed in God as I understood Him, I would not be responsible for being His saleman.
(That is a change from how I used to think! )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by ringo, posted 02-11-2007 11:23 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 02-11-2007 1:43 PM Phat has replied
 Message 43 by nator, posted 02-13-2007 12:36 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 61 (384395)
02-11-2007 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
02-11-2007 11:47 AM


accept God????????
You still haven't explained what accepting God means or why it is of any importance.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 11:47 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 02-11-2007 12:10 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 61 (384402)
02-11-2007 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
02-11-2007 11:58 AM


Re: accept God????????
This is where many of us differ and part company beliefwise.
  • Some believe that to accept God is to surrender ones brain and mind and bow to superior intelligence.
  • Others believe that IF God exists, God gave us a brain to use and keep as our inheritance and birthright...and that it does not matter whether or not we accept or even understand God.
    Personally, I believe that God desires that we make an attempt to acknowledge that we ourselves individually and collectively do not know everything nor will we ever and that it is ok to be humble and in awe.
    This is an individual thing, however...and not something to be taught and/or forced on others.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 29 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 11:58 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 33 by jar, posted 02-11-2007 3:41 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024