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Author Topic:   The psychology of political correctness
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(4)
Message 241 of 309 (779500)
03-05-2016 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Faith
03-04-2016 11:58 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
Faith writes:
THAT's political correctness, a body of fixed opinion nobody is allowed to contradict on pain of getting at least a tongue lashing, even though it's usually a ridiculous fiction, and generally it's in the service of some notion of political unfairness or inequality or wounded self-esteem for some "victim" group. It's politically incorrect to suggest that women's muscles are naturally not as strong as men's.
You gave three examples of what you call PC - weak female muscles, homosexuality as an aberation, violence in Islamic texts.
There's objective truth in all those statements, on average women have less muscular strength than men, homosexuality is less prevalent than heterosexuality and there is violence in some Islamic texts.
It's not the facts that people react to when such things are said - it's the value judgements underpinning them that gets criticised. Women aren't weak, homosexuality isn't wrongful and Muslim people aren't more violent that Christian people.
I agree that people often have difficulty separating the ojective fact related content from the value laden assumptions that can lie within them, but that's why we need to be careful with words that we know can be misinterpreted.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Faith, posted 03-04-2016 11:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Faith, posted 03-05-2016 9:37 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 03-05-2016 9:38 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 250 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 11:43 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 242 of 309 (779506)
03-05-2016 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Tangle
03-05-2016 3:01 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
dup
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2016 3:01 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 243 of 309 (779507)
03-05-2016 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Tangle
03-05-2016 3:01 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
It's not the facts that people react to when such things are said - it's the value judgements underpinning them that gets criticised. Women aren't weak, homosexuality isn't wrongful and Muslim people aren't more violent that Christian people.
Those are statements of fact, not value judgments.
Besides, who are you to dictate someone else's value judgment and harass them for not accepting it?
Relative to men, women ARE weak. That's not a value judgment.
According to the Bible homosexuality is a sin. That's a fact.
And Muslims ARE more violent than Christians because of their religion. That's also a fact. -- abe: Perhaps it could be stated more precisely, such as There is a much higher percentage of Muslim violence than Christian violence, and it is due to their religion. The raping of women by the refugees for instance. The current persecutions of Christians around the world that I gave links to in Message 238 are mostly by Muslims.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2016 3:01 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by frako, posted 03-05-2016 10:38 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 255 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2016 1:37 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 256 by Straggler, posted 03-06-2016 4:05 AM Faith has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 309 (779514)
03-05-2016 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Percy
03-04-2016 8:16 PM


Re: Stereotypical PC Pathetic Liberal Behavior
Please point out where I said this was 'something conservatives don't do'.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Percy, posted 03-04-2016 8:16 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Percy, posted 03-05-2016 11:09 AM Jon has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 245 of 309 (779517)
03-05-2016 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
03-05-2016 9:38 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
erhaps it could be stated more precisely, such as There is a much higher percentage of Muslim violence than Christian violence
But most violent criminals in prison in america are christian, how does that fit in to your logic?
And most terrorist attacks in america in the past 10 years have been comitted by christians.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 03-05-2016 9:38 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 11:39 AM frako has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 246 of 309 (779521)
03-05-2016 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Faith
03-04-2016 12:41 PM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
Faith writes:
Liberals so often just don't think, they search around for the politically correct position and put that up for their opinion.
If you read my posts, you'll find that I've taken some pretty INcorrect positions. For example, I've questioned the validity of "gender reassignment" and I've actually defended female circumcision FFS.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Faith, posted 03-04-2016 12:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 247 of 309 (779522)
03-05-2016 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Jon
03-05-2016 10:08 AM


Re: Stereotypical PC Pathetic Liberal Behavior
Jon writes:
Please point out where I said this was 'something conservatives don't do'.
I don't understand where the problem is. I extracted the back and forth in Message 194, it seems pretty clear. Your exact words in Message 182 were, "Conservatives don't typically do this...", and they appeared right after you "did this."
This is taking way to many posts for what began as an offhand noting of irony. If you still don't see it then I'm going to stop replying. Sorry.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 10:08 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 11:37 AM Percy has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 248 of 309 (779525)
03-05-2016 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Percy
03-05-2016 11:09 AM


Re: Stereotypical PC Pathetic Liberal Behavior
I see.
You got to your misunderstanding by taking what I said out of context. Let me put the context back in and help clear up your confusion.
The relevant portion of the message reads:
quote:
Jon in Message 182:
But the 'declare your opponent a bigot and count yourself a winner without addressing any of the content' is pretty much SOP for Liberal PC behavior.
Conservatives don't typically do this, instead having their own methods for silencing opposition and relieving themselves of the responsibility of offering thoughtful responses. I don't know what you want to call that, but I don't think many would call it Political Correctness.
I thought it was pretty obvious that 'do this' was in reference to declaring people bigots, and that I stated unambiguously that I believe conservatives also sidestep addressing the content when I said they have 'their own methods for silencing opposition and relieving themselves of the responsibility of offering thoughtful responses'.
And if this wasn't clear, it should be now.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Percy, posted 03-05-2016 11:09 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Percy, posted 03-05-2016 1:05 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 309 (779526)
03-05-2016 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by frako
03-05-2016 10:38 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
erhaps it could be stated more precisely, such as There is a much higher percentage of Muslim violence than Christian violence
But most violent criminals in prison in america are christian, how does that fit in to your logic?
And most terrorist attacks in america in the past 10 years have been comitted by christians.
Most Americans are Christians.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by frako, posted 03-05-2016 10:38 AM frako has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 309 (779527)
03-05-2016 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Tangle
03-05-2016 3:01 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
I agree that people often have difficulty separating the ojective fact related content from the value laden assumptions that can lie within them, but that's why we need to be careful with words that we know can be misinterpreted.
People who consistently misinterpret everything they hear should just be ignored.
Nobody should feel obligated to couch everything they say in special terms just so a bunch of nincompoops don't 'take it the wrong way'.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Tangle, posted 03-05-2016 3:01 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by ringo, posted 03-05-2016 11:45 AM Jon has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 251 of 309 (779528)
03-05-2016 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Jon
03-05-2016 11:43 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
Jon writes:
People who consistently misinterpret everything they hear should just be ignored.
I disagree, which is why I read your posts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 11:43 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 12:07 PM ringo has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 252 of 309 (779534)
03-05-2016 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by ringo
03-05-2016 11:45 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by ringo, posted 03-05-2016 11:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by ringo, posted 03-05-2016 12:13 PM Jon has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 253 of 309 (779536)
03-05-2016 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Jon
03-05-2016 12:07 PM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
Jon writes:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 12:07 PM Jon has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 254 of 309 (779540)
03-05-2016 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Jon
03-05-2016 11:37 AM


Re: Stereotypical PC Pathetic Liberal Behavior
Dissembling at its best.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Jon, posted 03-05-2016 11:37 AM Jon has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 255 of 309 (779543)
03-05-2016 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
03-05-2016 9:38 AM


Re: PC punishes whatever doesn't conform to the Acceptable Opinion
Faith writes:
Those are statements of fact, not value judgments.
Yes Faith, that's exactly what I said.
Besides, who are you to dictate someone else's value judgment and harass them for not accepting it?
I think you'll find that I'm not doing that, I'm explaining why you're getting the reactions you get.
quote:
Relative to men, women ARE weak. That's not a value judgment.
Yeh, that's actually what I said.
According to the Bible homosexuality is a sin. That's a fact.
Ditto
And Muslims ARE more violent than Christians because of their religion. That's also a fact. -- abe: Perhaps it could be stated more precisely, such as There is a much higher percentage of Muslim violence than Christian violence, and it is due to their religion. The raping of women by the refugees for instance. The current persecutions of Christians around the world that I gave links to in Message 238 are mostly by Muslims.
Just stick to it's a fact that there are violent passaged in the Koran - otherwise we'll get tangled up.
Re-read my original post. Why do you think woman said that female muscles aren't weaker than men's? I think you have to accept the fact that she couldn't be arguing that women are as strong as men, so why do you think she said it?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 03-05-2016 9:38 AM Faith has not replied

  
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