Comparitive delusions

It would be more consistent, but as I said consistency is not that important to them. Remember how Randman was so adamant that his reasons for rejecting evolution were entirely rational ? And did you see his recent self-destruct ? Their self-image is very important to them - that's why, for instance, Faith won't even admit to disagreeing with science preferring to falsely assert that the parts of science she objects to aren't science.

PaulK, Any chance of a link, please?Thanks,Mark This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-23-2006 10:30 AM

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

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Afterall, as you point out, no evidence of any kind will disuade her from her irrational views so why go to all the contortions to try to accomodate those views with science in a completely inconistent way?

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Funnily enough, I think I know the answer.Although Faith may be rock-steady in her belief, there are many, many more who are not and can be dissuaded by evidence and scientific reasoning. How many stories have we heard of fundamentalists who, in the face of the evidence, abandoned the creationist position and became theistic evolutionists instead? They perform these contortions in an effort to stop this.Anyway, to tie this in to the topic - I'm sure a large number of creationists believe that they are doing this for Jesus or something, and so feel completely justified in criticising actual scientists.

I think people like Faith actually end up helping the non-YEC side. The mental contortioning Faith must perform in order to maintain her YEC/anti-evolutionist stance is glaring.

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--IrishRockhound
Although Faith may be rock-steady in her belief, there are many, many more who are not and can be dissuaded by evidence and scientific reasoning. How many stories have we heard of fundamentalists who, in the face of the evidence, abandoned the creationist position and became theistic evolutionists instead? They perform these contortions in an effort to stop this.

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And I'm one of them. And you know what finally got me to realise there is more evidence for the Loch Ness monster that there is for Jesus and 99% of the bible? This thread, thanks to Iasion. From that thread I found a link to the Jesus puzzle website too, and with me already wondering how nobody ever told me how bogus half the stuff was, that website sealed the deal. And you know what? I feel so much better about my life than I ever did as fundamentalist, knowing that I am living THIS life, not just carefully setting everything up in the hope I do well enough for the next life. I'm living now, not preparing for the next one.But, because I have come from the same position as people like Faith, I can see why they believe so strongly. The simple fact is, the bible is not wrong. It's 100% right. No matter WHAT evidence you can come up with, it has to somehow fit around the bible. I know (knew) it is 100% correct, and just because you find some bones that say otherwise, your misinterpreting them. If you told me rocks prove how old the earth really is, you’re wrong because the bible says other wise. You might have tons of evidence that Noah was not real, but your and the evidence is wrong because the bible says otherwise! And then when faced with evidence that is absolutely condemning to areas of the bible and cannot simply be ignored, I would use the same line I see so often around here: “God made it like that”. Bull. Your just saying that so you can conveniently side step any possible doubt that creeps into your mind.Unfortunately you can never get away from this position and see that maybe, just maybe, the bible is not all it's cracked up to be because that means doubting your faith, and that will send your ass straight to hell. It’s a wonderful little catch 22 the church has made, and no matter how much you bash people in the head, even people who still believe in the Loch Ness monster, telling them ”They used satellite navigation technology to aim 600 separate sonar beams through Loch Ness to ensure that none of the loch was missed and found no trace of the monster”, but it wont make a damn bit of difference. No, just like I had to, you have to figure it out on your own. You have to realise that ”what if?’ your own way, and not be scared by the church or by fears of God condemning you to hell if you see the bible from the other side and realise it’s pretty damn bogus.[edit - fixed link]This message has been edited by boolean, 03-23-2006 10:28 PM

Some of us started out where you are now. I did. Thirty years worth of being where you are now. It's sad to see those who start out believers end up where you are now. Seems to work better the other way around as far as having a real faith goes.

Just to say it again for those who missed it, I had the very same objections to how ancient evolutionistic scenarios are presented as fact by scientists BEFORE I became a Christian.

And a lot of us over on Bool's side started exactly where you are, now. Sounds like you took a three-decades step backwards, but you're a sobering reminder about how even the most skeptical intellect can fall prey to the seduction of fundamentalist religion. Guess it's easier than thinking for yourself, though.

I'm not really sure what you think you're demonstrating with that admission, Faith. All it tells me is that your wretched grasp of science has been a long-term affliction.

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Guess it's easier than thinking for yourself, though.

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This may be a key point crash. An appeal of fundamentalism is the "leave your brain at home" clause. It says, don't question anything we (preacher, church leadership, book) say...just rest your head and be confident that it is correct..trust us. In fact, fundamentalism of any kind, evangelical, Islamic fundamentalism, all of them strongly surpress any questioning...often by killing those who do. It in principle gives you permission if not outright license to feel superior, enlightened, informed without actually knowing anything...and allows you to paint those that actually are informed as evil.Contrast that with being a skeptical layperson. They have to inform themselves by, reading difficult texts, study popular and scientific literature..and question those in authority i.e. scientists. It is much more difficult and time consuming which for a sad number of Americans seems to be an easy excuse to cop out.The thread should probably be titled Comparative intellectual laziness

Faith,Please address this post, please.Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

Indeed! And did you have any real reason for discounting their conclusions then?
Did you try to do any research or ask any questions about those conclusions?If you have any questions about conclusion presented in a sermon, do you look in the Bible and ask the minister about it or do you just stand around and go "I wonder....?"

Yes, that they are mere imaginative scenarios about the distant past that cannot ever be tested being presented as fact. Same reason as now.And it's very interesting that everybody has decided to "answer" my post about how I had this view of OE/ToE type science before I was a Christian, which was given only to answer the insinuation that intelligence and reason (a rationalist perspective) demand that one debunk religion rather than the other way around. Yes, I did. Which I've said before. The kind of research that would be required to look up the facts behind a hominid scenario for instance would require me to get a science degree.Again, I don't have "questions" about the presentation of these scenarios, I have OBJECTIONS.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-24-2006 04:20 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 03-24-2006 04:45 PM

I've studied hominids extensively. If you have any questions, just ask.

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"Headpiece filled with straw, Alas!"--T. S. Eliot

OK, how do you know there is such a thing? How do you know the few bits and pieces of skulls you take so seriously aren't either of an ape or a diseased human, or even just a human? How do you really KNOWWWWWWW?????This message has been edited by Faith, 03-24-2006 05:03 PM