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Author Topic:   The Barbarity of Christianity (as compared to Islam)
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 271 of 299 (384645)
02-12-2007 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Tal
02-12-2007 1:16 PM


Re: We're just better, dammit!
And they'll continue, only next time it will be in your market.
Uh huh.
Same song and dance they ran during Viet Nam. I must have missed the Vietnamese invasion of the U.S.
If you really think that a bunch of camel jockeys can wage a military action against the U.S. on own soil then I am beginning to doubt your credentials. Next, you're going "remind" me, as if I could ever forget, about 9/11. Then, I will "remind" you that Iraq had as much to do with 9/11 as Turkey did.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Tal, posted 02-12-2007 1:16 PM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-12-2007 3:20 PM subbie has replied

Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 3598 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 272 of 299 (384648)
02-12-2007 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by subbie
02-12-2007 3:05 PM


dominoes
subbie:
I must have missed the Vietnamese invasion of the U.S.
This is just a rhetorical jab, I know. But it's worth mentioning that no American leader suggested Vietnamese Communists would invade the US.
Leaders in both parties were concerned that, per the domino theory, the fall of Vietnam would herald the fall of neighboring countries to Communist dictatorships.
Countries like Laos and Cambodia, for example.
Carry on.
___
Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.

Archer
All species are transitional.

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Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 273 of 299 (384650)
02-12-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Archer Opteryx
02-12-2007 3:20 PM


Re: dominoes
Fair point.
I suppose my "rhetorical jab" would have been more on point if Tal had expressed concerns that we need to fight Al Quaeda in Iraq to keep them out of Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.....

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-12-2007 3:20 PM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by jar, posted 02-12-2007 4:23 PM subbie has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 274 of 299 (384664)
02-12-2007 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by subbie
02-12-2007 3:27 PM


Re: dominoes
I suppose my "rhetorical jab" would have been more on point if Tal had expressed concerns that we need to fight Al Quaeda in Iraq to keep them out of Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia.....
Except for the fact, of course, that Al Queda was not In Iraq and was already in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.
But then Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 either.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 275 of 299 (384726)
02-12-2007 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Tal
02-12-2007 1:16 PM


Re: We're just better, dammit!
Those patriots-oops-terrorists are the ones killing the families.
Turning and running (thus giving the patriots-oops-terrorists a huge victory over the lone super-power of the world) will only show these guys that what they do (killing wife/husband/family) will work to get their way. And they'll continue, only next time it will be in your market.
Are you trying to tell me Coalition forces have NEVER killed families?
I wouldn`t get too rapt in the idea of 'the lone super-power'. Super-powers come and go as the last couple of centuries have proven. The U.S. is scratching to keep up troop numbers as it is, national debt is reaching disturbing proportions, and the oil crisis showed the vulnerability of fuel supplies. Of course, you could let off all your nuclear weapons and live in a devastated planet, but who would be left to give you an attaboy? Wouldn`t it be better to stop meddling in other people`s affairs and try making friends for a change? That could mean disbanding the CIA, but then they never got Iraq right in the first place, did they?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Tal, posted 02-12-2007 1:16 PM Tal has not replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 276 of 299 (384736)
02-12-2007 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by jar
02-12-2007 4:23 PM


Re: dominoes
Aw, shoot.
Did I forget to click the irony icon again.

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by jar, posted 02-12-2007 4:23 PM jar has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 277 of 299 (384860)
02-13-2007 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Tal
02-12-2007 1:35 PM


Re: What spirit?
Hi, Tal.
quote:
At any rate, which Islamic society do you believe has been peaceful?
Ouch. Yeah, I did mispeak, didn't I? I meant that line to be a repeat of the point I made in a previous post.
I certainly can't think of any Muslim societies that were particularly peaceful -- at least no more than I can think of any Christian peaceful societies. I meant to say that Islamic societies were no more violent than comparable Christian ones. Sorry for the mispeak.
Certainly, in my personal experience, in secular societies Muslims were as peaceful and tolerant as their fellow Christians.

This world can take my money and time/ But it sure can't take my soul. -- Joe Ely

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 Message 270 by Tal, posted 02-12-2007 1:35 PM Tal has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 278 of 299 (384875)
02-13-2007 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Chiroptera
02-12-2007 8:03 AM


Re: What spirit?
Chioptera writes:
Then why the hell do you start topics like this? Everytime this has come up, the conversation has proceeded exactly the same way. Your arguments have been shown to be self-serving and lame every single time, consisting of cherry-picking your examples and pretending that your own particular interpretation (of not only your sacred scripture, but other peoples' as well!) is the authentic one. If you can't use actual facts or logic to demonstrate your point, then quit wasting your time.
1. I didn't start this topic. It's Faith's thread and OP. I'm participating in it just like you.
2. I'm not cherrypicking anything. I challenge you to cite one verse in the entire NT that advocates violence by followers of Jesus and his desciples. How many times do I need remind you that the originators of the NT, Jesus and the apostles all advocated suffering rather than reprisal, revenge or any other violence for advancement of the kingdom of God?
3. My arguments are no more self serving than yours. After all, my friend, aren't we all working to advance our own agendas relative to our personal ideology? That my points are weightier than yours is not a fault of mine. You need to reassess your position as to whether it may need some adjustments.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 299 (384881)
02-13-2007 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Chiroptera
02-11-2007 10:21 AM


Re:Government Violence
Chiroptera writes:
especially societies where the state has been openly acknowledge to based on Christianity, have not had a particularly peaceful track record.
The US is not a Christian nation according to most folks here of your persuasion. Remember? Besides that, governments of nations are a totally different topic and issue. What heads of state do does not apply to the individual Chrisitans in that nation who themselves are accountable for their own actions. According to the Bible, God raises up and takes down nations via war for the advancement of his eventual earthly kingdom and his purposes.
Edited by Buzsaw, : eliminate a word and change title

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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 Message 255 by Chiroptera, posted 02-11-2007 10:21 AM Chiroptera has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 280 of 299 (384887)
02-13-2007 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Buzsaw
02-13-2007 11:44 AM


Re: What spirit?
quote:
I challenge you to cite one verse in the entire NT that advocates violence by followers of Jesus and his desciples.
Matthew
Jesus said:
15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Luke
Jesus said:
19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Acts
Peter claims that Deut 18: 18-19 refers to those who do not believe in Jesus, and that those people should be killed:
3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Romans
Paul declares:
3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
In other words, people who do these listed evils, and those who accept them, should be put to death.

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Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 281 of 299 (385334)
02-15-2007 6:54 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Buzsaw
02-13-2007 11:44 AM


Re: What spirit?
Move over, Schraf.
I challenge you to cite one verse in the entire NT that advocates violence by followers of Jesus and his desciples. How many times do I need remind you that the originators of the NT, Jesus and the apostles all advocated suffering rather than reprisal, revenge or any other violence for advancement of the kingdom of God?
Matt 21:12/Mark 11:15 While not advocating violence, actions usually speak louder than words. Hardly non-violence.
Matt. 10:34 While it may be a metaphorical statement, how would fundies understand the difference, let alone the meaning of metaphor?
Luke 22:36 Arming those who weren`t carrying? And the aftermath as a result of carrying a sword? Not anticipated by Jesus?
Matt 8:28-32/Mark 5:1-13/Luke 8:27-33 What is going on here, Buz? Gergesenes? Gadarenes? Two men? One man? All I can read is a pretty violent destruction of someone else`s property on a massive scale. And no compensation paid, either.
I won`t go into the treatment of His mother and family as we don`t know the circumstances of the separation, but Jesus is hardly a role model with the barbs and sneers He directs their way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Buzsaw, posted 02-13-2007 11:44 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 299 (385350)
02-15-2007 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Buzsaw
02-13-2007 11:44 AM


Re: What spirit?
quote:
How many times do I need remind you that the originators of the NT, Jesus and the apostles all advocated suffering rather than reprisal, revenge or any other violence for advancement of the kingdom of God?
A lot, evidently. I'm not sure why someone who repeats himself so much is complaining about wasting his time.
-
quote:
That my points are weightier than yours is not a fault of mine. You need to reassess your position as to whether it may need some adjustments.
Well, this is better than complaining how I am wasting your time.

This world can take my money and time/ But it sure can't take my soul. -- Joe Ely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Buzsaw, posted 02-13-2007 11:44 AM Buzsaw has not replied

inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6082 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 283 of 299 (389202)
03-11-2007 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Tal
02-10-2007 2:12 PM


Re: setting the record straight
You people applied SHARIA in India, ISrael, Africa, and now in the USA. Mosques have been built in cities very sacred to Non muslims and Sharia commands takeover of these cities by Islamofascists. Result: In India, 3 million people lost their lives. Islam means Submission. If people refuse to submit to worship ALLAH(MOON) their heads are cut off. Quran commands its followers to hate Christians and JEws. Surah 33 calls upon Muslims to execute Jews and Christians. It also commands those who renounce Islam to be executed. Islam is a religion??? (actually a political force based on confused theology) initiated only to DOMINATE the entire world by all means. Do you still defend your violence all across the world?

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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 284 of 299 (389207)
03-11-2007 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by nator
02-13-2007 12:20 PM


Re: What spirit?
Yes, move over there Schraf. Quote-mining is disingenuous. This is what Paul goes on to say in Romans 1.
Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things
nator writes:
In other words, people who do these listed evils, and those who accept them, should be put to death.
In other words, Paul's words, those who practice these things should NOT be put to death or even judged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by nator, posted 02-13-2007 12:20 PM nator has not replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 285 of 299 (389232)
03-11-2007 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by nator
02-13-2007 12:20 PM


Advocating Violence, Not
Buzsaw writes:
I challenge you to cite one verse in the entire NT that advocates violence by followers of Jesus and his desciples.
You do realize that you haven't accomplished that task yet, don't you?
Matthew 15:4
15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Jesus is not advocating violence. He is talking with Pharisees and teachers of the law (Jews) and telling them that they are not honoring their parents. He didn't say that they should die, but called them hypocrites and said that they nullified the word of God. He was only quoting the law. He did not advocate that they should die.
Luke 19:27
19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
This is part of a parable, a story, not Jesus advocating violence by himself or his followers.
Acts 3:23
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed/cut off from among the people.
Again, no matter which translation you use, Peter wasn't advocating violence by any of Jesus' followers. It was part of the quote.
Romans 1:32
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Paul isn't advocating violence either. His point was:
Romans 2
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things....So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment?
Pulling quotes out of context don't work for either side of the argument.
Edited by purpledawn, : Subtitle

Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?

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