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Author Topic:   Setting the record straight on hunting accidents
ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 16 of 71 (286235)
02-13-2006 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Omnivorous
02-13-2006 2:55 PM


Re: Tort Reform
Yup.
If there is a cartoon depicting this event, then you can expect a bunch of (laughing) riots across the Texas from quail hunters (a religion down here). There will be burning of cigars, ... and feathers will fly !

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Omnivorous, posted 02-13-2006 2:55 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5834 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 17 of 71 (286405)
02-14-2006 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tal
02-13-2006 2:48 PM


Funny
This is just another way Bush and Chenney are killing old people. Instead of simply taking away their medicare and prescription drugs, they are simply taking them out to the woods and shooting them.
Saves alot of money that way.
Tal, I have to give you credit there. That was pretty damn funny.

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 Message 14 by Tal, posted 02-13-2006 2:48 PM Tal has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 18 of 71 (286500)
02-14-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Omnivorous
02-13-2006 2:55 PM


Re: Tort Reform
I am pretty sure before it is all said and done there will be a tremendous law suit settlement. Of all the stupid things to do, ta go out and shoot a lawyer in the face. Bad bad bad, no spinning it, he screwed up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Omnivorous, posted 02-13-2006 2:55 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 19 of 71 (286511)
02-14-2006 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tal
02-13-2006 2:48 PM


This is just another way Bush and Chenney are killing old people. Instead of simply taking away their medicare and prescription drugs, they are simply taking them out to the woods and shooting them.
Saves alot of money that way.
Yep. And that's why the big developers lure so many retirees to Florida.
Gators.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 20 of 71 (286533)
02-14-2006 2:38 PM


So, apparently this is just a little more than a little hunting accident. Firstly, it's been three days and the guy is still in the ICU. Also, some of the birdshot lodged in his heart and caused a heart attack.
And the administration is treating this like a joke?

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 21 of 71 (286535)
02-14-2006 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by crashfrog
02-14-2006 2:38 PM


Also, some of the birdshot lodged in his heart and caused a heart attack.
And the administration is treating this like a joke?
Yeah, I just saw that report. Wiped the smile off my face.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 71 (286538)
02-14-2006 2:46 PM


Ditto to what people have been saying about firearms. Top to bottom, the training is that you keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, verify the safety of both your target area and the downrange, and you don't point a firearm - loaded or not - at anything you don't intend to fire at.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 71 (286669)
02-14-2006 8:01 PM


Didn't break just one rule...
he broke a whole gaggle of them.
Even the spin from the WH claims that the shootee came up behind the shooter. Get that, behind.
Anytime you're on the line there is an inviolable rule, you NEVER break the 180o line. For Cheney to shoot someone behind him he also had to sweep others of the party to get there.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Murphy, posted 02-18-2006 8:09 PM jar has replied

  
Murphy
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 71 (288222)
02-18-2006 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
02-14-2006 8:01 PM


Re: Didn't break just one rule...
Let's see... where was the 'line'? They had moved to a covey of quail being pointed by a dog. When a covey breaks they seldom fly in a line, at least the coveys I've hunted. I'm not familiar with the exact terrain where this happened but from the police report the guy was in a shallow area, below the sight line, and Cheney shot at a bird just above the vegetation. Quail love rolling terrain. A 28 gauge with birdshot, probably at least 7.5, at 30 yards is going to do little more than break the skin and is going to be a very open pattern. The shot that is in the heart got there through the blood circulatory system, not from the initial force.
If you were to hunt quail in the manner that has been discussed here you would never get a bird, at least not with a 28 gauge because the birds would be in too open a pattern after 20 yards to do any more than slightly cripple them. Bird shooting is not anything like big game hunting.
I'm not saying that Cheney isn't responsible, because he is. But if you're going to hang him for an act, the least you could do would be to know a bit about the act. As for a coverup, I doubt anyone in the party, and it sounds like about 6 or 8 people, were concerned about reporting it instead of taking care of the victim. The police were contacted within the hour and did investigate. I had a friend in high school blow off his calf muscle with a 12 gauge and the police weren't involved because it was an accident.
(If you want a real coverup, consider the Marcy Park incident and locked offices.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 02-14-2006 8:01 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 02-18-2006 8:39 PM Murphy has replied
 Message 27 by Omnivorous, posted 02-18-2006 8:53 PM Murphy has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 71 (288229)
02-18-2006 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Murphy
02-18-2006 8:09 PM


Re: Didn't break just one rule...
Well, I've hunted quail, pheasant, doves, as well as deer, duck, geese, woodchuck and squirrel, skeet and trap. And the line is the line of hunters.
You must know at all times where the other hunters are. Your area is 45o to the right and left of you. But there is NO reason that you should ever swing a gun beyond that arc. And there is NO way that someone coming up behind you should ever be covered.
Then we find out he had a beer before going shooting.
Sorry, but you do not drink and go shooting. That is simply unforgivable.
Cheney broke not one rule, not two rules, not three rules but just about every rule of shooting. He should be ashamed of himself.
Shooters today are under attack. There are many who think none of us are mature and responsible enough to handle a gun, and when someone like Cheney goes out and does something that dumb it is an insult to all of us that try to follow the rules and act responsibly.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Murphy, posted 02-18-2006 8:09 PM Murphy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by NosyNed, posted 02-18-2006 8:50 PM jar has replied
 Message 30 by Murphy, posted 02-18-2006 11:50 PM jar has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 26 of 71 (288233)
02-18-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
02-18-2006 8:39 PM


The beer
The last person I'd want to defend is Cheney but as I understand it he had a beer at noon and this was more than 3 hours later.
I don't think that can be considered as a mistake.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 02-18-2006 8:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 02-18-2006 8:56 PM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 29 by Omnivorous, posted 02-18-2006 8:59 PM NosyNed has not replied
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 27 of 71 (288235)
02-18-2006 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Murphy
02-18-2006 8:09 PM


Re: Didn't break just one rule...
The police were contacted within the hour and did investigate.
The police were turned away at the door and told no assistance was required. They came back the next day to interview Cheney. Is that what's hiding in between your "contacted within the hour" and "did investigate"?
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on upland bird hunting. From your confusion on what the line is, I'll know to avoid your company.
You might be surprised to know there are folks on this forum who have been hunting for nearly a half century and have never shot a fellow hunter, nor have their friends shot themselves.
Welcome to EvC, Murphy.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Murphy, posted 02-18-2006 8:09 PM Murphy has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 71 (288237)
02-18-2006 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by NosyNed
02-18-2006 8:50 PM


Re: The beer
As a shooter, I can tell you it most certainly is.
You just don't drink and then shoot.
He was wrong.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 29 of 71 (288239)
02-18-2006 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by NosyNed
02-18-2006 8:50 PM


Re: The beer
That's his account, Ned. As far as I can tell, he brought it up himself. The hospital spokesman refused to comment and stopped the press conference when reporters asked whether the victim's blood alcohol level was tested.
I agree, though, that a beer at lunch is no problem for hunting three hours later. But I don't trust Cheney nearly as far as I could throw him--he's a dedicated liar, and the refusal to talk to the police makes me suspicious. It's not like Cheney took the guy to the hospital--he stayed at the ranch and sat down to dinner.

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by NosyNed, posted 02-18-2006 8:50 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Murphy
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 71 (288275)
02-18-2006 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by jar
02-18-2006 8:39 PM


Re: Didn't break just one rule...
If you've hunted as much as you say you have then you know that on a covey break birds are going to fly behind people. The 'line' changes with the wind or terrain. The guy has stated that he came up on them and they didn't know he was there. Since he wasn't there, according to their knowledge, there was nothing dangerous about what Cheney did. Note that none of those Cheney was aware of were shot at. I agree that Cheney was ultimately responsible because the gun was in his hands, but the guy who was shot has stated that he should have let them know he was there.
If drinking a beer at lunch, hunting 3 hrs later and this accident happened at 5:30 is a mistake, I'll guarantee you that almost every hunter makes the same mistake almost every hunt. Again, that doesn't make it right but the idea that those who drink a beer wait over 5 hrs before hunting is just not 'of this world'. I would guess many of the hunters on this site have done worse.
Making it sound like Cheney didn't care because he 'sat down to eat' leaves out the idea that he sat down to eat with friends of the guy who was shot... did they not care either?
I wonder what would be said if it had been Slick Willie who had accidently shot someone... of course with him it would never have been an accident... nor would the victim have survived.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by jar, posted 02-18-2006 8:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 02-19-2006 12:24 PM Murphy has not replied
 Message 35 by jar, posted 02-19-2006 12:53 PM Murphy has replied

  
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