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Author Topic:   Iran, Nukes, and the End of the World
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 31 of 38 (423280)
09-20-2007 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
09-19-2007 12:08 PM


Re: incite attack?
Well if you are not game Phat, I am.
jar writes:
List the nations invaded by North Korea.
1950 - South Korea
Now list the nations invaded by the US.
1776 - 1880s - Virtually countless Indian Nations
1776 - Canada (then part of UK)
1801 - Tripoli
1806 - Mexico
1810 - Florida (then part of Spain)
1812 - Florida (then part of Spain)
1812 - Canada (then part of UK)
1813 - Florida (then part of Spain)
1816 - Florida (then part of Spain)
1832 - Indonesia
1833 - Argentina
1835 - Peru
1846 - Mexico
1852 - Argentina
1855 - Fiji Islands
1856 - China
1857 - Nicaragua
1860 - Columbia
1868 - Japan
1873 - Columbia
1891 - Haiti
1893 - Hawaii
1894 - Nicaragua
1894 - China
1894 - Korea
1895 - Panama
1898 - Cuba, Philippines, Puerto Rico, Guam (then part of Spain)
1898 - Nicaragua
1900 - China
1901 - Panama (as part of splitting from Columbia, properly 1901-14)
1903 - Honduras
1903 - Dominican Republic
1904 - Korea
1906 - Cuba
1907 - Nicaragua
1907 - Honduras
1908 - Panama
1910 - Nicaragua
1911 - Honduras
1911 - China
1912 - Cuba
1912 - Panama
1912 - Nicaragua
1913 - Mexico
1914 - Dominican Republic
1914 - Haiti
1916 - Dominican Republic
1917 - Cuba
1916 - Mexico
1917 - 1918 - WWI
1918 - Russia
1918 - Panama
1919 - Honduras
1919 - Yugoslavia
1920 - Guatemala
1922 - Turkey
1922 - China
1924 - Honduras
1925 - Panama
1927 - China
1932 - El Salvador
1941 - 1945 - WWII
1950 - Korean War
1953 - Iran (primarily CIA)
1954 - Guatemala
1958 - Lebanon
1960 - 1975 Vietnam War
1962 - Laos
1964 - Panama
1965 - Dominican Republic
1966 - Guatemala
1969 - Cambodia
1970 - Oman
1971 - Laos
1975 - Cambodia
1982 - Lebanon
1983 - Grenada
1989 - Panama
1991 - Iraq
1992 - Somalia
1994 - Haiti
1999 - Yugoslavia
2001 - Afghanistan
2003 - {forever} Iraq War
A somewhat more comprehensive list of minor 'interventions' or 'showing of force' as opposed to actual troop invasions lasting at least several days may be found here: Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia
"Why do they hate us?" - Common question asked by Americans lacking a proper education in history.
Please note I am not arguing that either all or none of these invasions were justified. I leave it to the reader, their political acumen, and their conscience to discriminate between one and the other.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 12:08 PM jar has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 32 of 38 (423593)
09-23-2007 12:53 AM


Israelis seized nuclear material in Syrian raid
Israelis seized nuclear material in Syrian raid
Israeli commandos seized nuclear material of North Korean origin during a daring raid on a secret military site in Syria before Israel bombed it this month, according to informed sources in Washington and Jerusalem.
The attack was launched with American approval on September 6 after Washington was shown evidence the material was nuclear related, the well-placed sources say.
They confirmed that samples taken from Syria for testing had been identified as North Korean. This raised fears that Syria might have joined North Korea and Iran in seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.
Israeli special forces had been gathering intelligence for several months in Syria, according to Israeli sources. They located the nuclear material at a compound near Dayr az-Zwar in the north.
Evidence that North Korean personnel were at the site is said to have been shared with President George W Bush over the summer. A senior American source said the administration sought proof of nuclear-related activities before giving the attack its blessing.
Diplomats in North Korea and China believe a number of North Koreans were killed in the strike, based on reports reaching Asian governments about conversations between Chinese and North Korean officials.
Syrian officials flew to Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, last week, reinforcing the view that the two nations were coordinating their response.

If those WMD that don't exist were easier to identify and handled properly, then this would not have occurred.

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 33 of 38 (423594)
09-23-2007 1:02 AM


Middle East Volcano
On Sept. 6, something important happened in northern Syria. Problem is, no one knows exactly what. Except for those few who were involved, and they're not saying.
We do know that Israel carried out an airstrike. How do we know it was important? Because in Israel, where leaking is an art form, even the best-informed don't have a clue. They tell me they have never seen a better-kept secret.
Which suggests that whatever happened near Dayr az Zawr was no accidental intrusion into Syrian airspace, no dry run for an attack on Iran, no strike on some conventional target such as an Iranian Revolutionary Guard base or a weapons shipment on its way to Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Circumstantial evidence points to this being an attack on some nuclear facility provided by North Korea.
Three days earlier, a freighter flying the North Korean flag docked in the Syrian port city of Tartus with a shipment of "cement." Long way to go for cement. Within days, a top State Department official warned that "there may have been contact between Syria and some secret suppliers for nuclear equipment." Three days later, the six-party meeting on dismantling North Korea's nuclear facilities scheduled for Sept. 19 was suddenly postponed, officially by China, almost certainly at the behest of North Korea.
Apart from the usual suspects -- Syria, Iran, Libya and Russia -- only two countries registered strong protests to the Israeli strike: Turkey and North Korea. Turkey we can understand. Its military may have permitted Israel an overflight corridor without ever having told the Islamist civilian government. But North Korea? What business is this of North Korea's? Unless it was a North Korean facility being hit.
Which raises alarms for many reasons. First, it would undermine the whole North Korean disarmament process. Pyongyang might be selling its stuff to other rogue states or perhaps just temporarily hiding it abroad while permitting ostentatious inspections back home.
Second, there are ominous implications for the Middle East. Syria has long had chemical weapons -- on Monday, Jane's Defence Weekly reported on an accident that killed dozens of Syrians and Iranians loading a nerve-gas warhead onto a Syrian missile -- but Israel will not tolerate a nuclear Syria.
Tensions are already extremely high because of Iran's headlong rush to go nuclear. In fending off sanctions and possible military action, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has chosen a radically aggressive campaign to assemble, deploy, flaunt and partially activate Iran's proxies in the Arab Middle East:
(1) Hamas launching rockets into Israeli towns and villages across the border from the Gaza Strip. Its intention is to invite an Israeli reaction, preferably a bloody and telegenic ground assault.
(2) Hezbollah heavily rearmed with Iranian rockets transshipped through Syria and preparing for the next round of fighting with Israel. The third Lebanon war, now inevitable, awaits only Tehran's order.
(3) Syria, Iran's only Arab client state, building up forces across the Golan Heights frontier with Israel. And on Wednesday, yet another anti-Syrian member of Lebanon's parliament was killed in a massive car bombing.
(4) The al-Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard training and equipping Shiite extremist militias in the use of the deadliest IEDs and rocketry against American and Iraqi troops. Iran is similarly helping the Taliban attack NATO forces in Afghanistan.
Why is Iran doing this? Because it has its eye on a single prize: the bomb. It needs a bit more time, knowing that once it goes nuclear, it becomes the regional superpower and Persian Gulf hegemon.
Iran's assets in Gaza, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq are poised and ready. Ahmadinejad's message is this: If anyone dares attack our nuclear facilities, we will fully activate our proxies, unleashing unrestrained destruction on Israel, moderate Arabs, Iraq and U.S. interests -- in addition to the usual, such as mining the Strait of Hormuz and causing an acute oil crisis and worldwide recession.
This is an extremely high-stakes game. The time window is narrow. In probably less than two years, Ahmadinejad will have the bomb.
The world is not quite ready to acquiesce. The new president of France has declared a nuclear Iran " unacceptable." The French foreign minister warned that "it is necessary to prepare for the worst" -- and "the worst, it's war, sir."
Which makes it all the more urgent that powerful sanctions be slapped on the Iranian regime. Sanctions will not stop Ahmadinejad. But there are others in the Iranian elite who might stop him and the nuclear program before the volcano explodes. These rival elites may be radical, but they are not suicidal. And they believe, with reason, that whatever damage Ahmadinejad's apocalyptic folly may inflict upon the region and the world, on Crusader and Jew, on infidel and believer, the one certain result of such an eruption is Iran's Islamic republic buried under the ash.

If those WMD that don't exist were easier to identify and handled properly, then this would not have occurred.

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 34 of 38 (423972)
09-25-2007 12:58 AM


U.S.: Iran Smuggling Missiles and Other Advanced Weapons Into Iraq
BAGHDAD ” The U.S. military accused Iran on Sunday of smuggling surface-to-air missiles and other advanced weapons into Iraq for use against American troops.
Military spokesman Rear Adm. Mark Fox said U.S. troops were continuing to find Iranian-supplied weaponry including the Misagh 1, a portable surface-to-air missile that uses an infrared guidance system.
Other advanced Iranian weaponry found in Iraq includes the RPG-29 rocket-propelled grenade, 240 mm rockets and armor-piercing roadside bombs known as explosively formed penetrators, or EFPs, Fox said.
The charge comes as Iran's leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is set to begin his first full day in New York City where he plans to speak at Columbia University ahead of his address to the U.N. General Assembly on Tuesday
Full Story

If those WMD that don't exist were easier to identify and handled properly, then this would not have occurred.

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 09-25-2007 4:13 AM Tal has replied
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 09-25-2007 12:28 PM Tal has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 38 (424002)
09-25-2007 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tal
09-25-2007 12:58 AM


Re: U.S.: Iran Smuggling Missiles and Other Advanced Weapons Into Iraq
The RPG-29 entered service with the Soviet army in 1989.
1989.
And your point is?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tal, posted 09-25-2007 12:58 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Tal, posted 09-25-2007 4:49 AM jar has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 36 of 38 (424004)
09-25-2007 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
09-25-2007 4:13 AM


Re: U.S.: Iran Smuggling Missiles and Other Advanced Weapons Into Iraq
The RPG-29 entered service with the Soviet army in 1989.
1989.
And your point is?
I report. You decide.

If those WMD that don't exist were easier to identify and handled properly, then this would not have occurred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 09-25-2007 4:13 AM jar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 38 (424064)
09-25-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Tal
09-25-2007 12:58 AM


Re: U.S.: Iran Smuggling Missiles and Other Advanced Weapons Into Iraq
Huh. So the reason that Iran is bad is because they are assisting a resistance movement against an illegal foreign military occupation? That's pretty much what I figured.
But I thought the Official Reason Iran Is Bad is because they are developing nuclear weapons that they will then use to utterly destroy Western Christiandom.

You can observe a lot by watching. -- Yogi Berra

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Tal, posted 09-25-2007 12:58 AM Tal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-25-2007 3:10 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 38 of 38 (424096)
09-25-2007 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Chiroptera
09-25-2007 12:28 PM


Re: U.S.: Iran Smuggling Missiles and Other Advanced Weapons Into Iraq
there are lots of reasons we don't like iran. the first is, they want nukes which is compounded by reason two, they "hate" israel. now. the reason they want nukes is because israel "hates" them and israel has nukes (and has recently attacked syria, not to mention homg lebanon).
third, they're scary persians. have you seen 300? have any idea how we feel about iran? they threaten us because they were one of the original humungo-empires. now, they have this new factor of islam to unify them with other large groups.
four. did i mention islam? yeah. scary muslims. it's easy to pin the evil badge on anyone we don't understand.
five. human rights. this is legitimate. they really do have some stuff they need to work on. we do too, but we don't like to bring attention to that.
six. they have oil. i'm sure. if not, our president probably thinks they do. we want it and we don't want to pay for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Chiroptera, posted 09-25-2007 12:28 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
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