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Author | Topic: The Great Depression No One Talks About | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
You don't seem to know what I think.
If socialism worked the way people like Ringo thinks it works, it would be flat out communism. Hyroglyphx writes:
Cuba is an example of a country that the US literally tried to overthrow because of an insane hatred for socialism. A more cooperative approach might well have resulted in a more benign version of socialism. History doesn't have a single example of anything besides that repressive system. And by the way, the Castro government was significantly better than the (literally) gangster-ridden dictatorship that it replaced."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Investopedia writes: The main goal of socialism is to narrow, but not totally remove, the gap between the rich and the poor. The government, through its agencies and policies, takes the responsibility to redistribute production and wealth, making the society fairer and leveled. This is where ringo and I argue. I would argue that its not fair to level the playing field if I am deemed to make more than the overall fair average. I am in just the wrong spot. The average wage in the retail industry is roughly $15.00 an hour. Many people are currently unemployed, which drives up demand for jobs and lowers the overall acceptable wage. Thus, people would do what I do for less than what I am getting paid. Yet I am NOT rich. All I am trying to do is save my modest surplus, (roughly $500.00 a month) be able to accumulate enough money to retire and supplement my modest expected social security, estimated at around $1200.00 a month. Inflation is looming on the horizon though, and the whole system threatens to destabilize. Honestly, I think that it is a good thing that we are attempting to level this inflation globally so that the entire world can help pay the bill rather than that the bill be saddled on the US working class. This is where the Republicans get their power and influence and I for one support it in that I refuse to be saddled with the bill while the rest of the socialist market economics of the rest of the world takes the spots that were once occupied by my people. Does that make sense or am I missing a key analytic in this global economy?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
First of all, the definition you're arguing with is not mine. My idea of socialism is, From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. This is where ringo and I argue. YOUR needs - healthcare, etc. - would be met, at no direct expense to you.
Phat writes:
As I have told you before, I have NO surplus.
All I am trying to do is save my modest surplus, (roughly $500.00 a month)... Phat writes:
That's more than my pensions.
... and supplement my modest expected social security, estimated at around $1200.00 a month. Phat writes:
You're missing empathy. And you're sounding a bit racist (or is it white guys who are likely to take your job?) Does that make sense or am I missing a key analytic in this global economy? And you're supporting the fascist Republicans, which should be a clue."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
You don't seem to know what I think. I've been reading your words for nearly 15 years, I think I have a pretty good idea.
Cuba is an example of a country that the US literally tried to overthrow because of an insane hatred for socialism. Communism, please stop trying to soften it.
the Castro government was significantly better than the (literally) gangster-ridden dictatorship that it replaced. I grew up in Miami around thousands of Cubans who all shared the same sentiments and personal stories about the horrors of the Castro regime. My brother-in-law is Cuban. Cuban culture and politics is deeply entrenched into who I am. This is aside from the Cubans that I personally plucked out of the sea who risked life and limb to escape, what, Ringo? Imagine how bad it must be to crudely thatch together oil drums and cross the sea hoping that the currents will take you 90 miles to freedom before you die or starvation, sun exposure, dehydration or dysentary. Look at all the Olympic defectors.... competing for their country and then fleeing to another country. Interesting how it isn't the other way around, well, EVER. The only time an American defects to Cuba is to escape prosecution for murder What fucking planet do you live on that even in 2020 you would have the balls to try and defend an indisputable failure? You must be so isolated that you actually believe this nonsense. Let it go. Marxism is a sham. It always has been and always will be. Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given."Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
It was American stupidity that hardened Castro's line and forced him into the Soviet camp. But of course you couldn't risk the possibility of actual socialism working on your doorstep.
ringo writes:
Communism, please stop trying to soften it. Cuba is an example of a country that the US literally tried to overthrow because of an insane hatred for socialism. Hyroglyphx writes:
Sure, if you only listen to one side of the story, you're likely to get a one-sided story.
I grew up in Miami around thousands of Cubans who all shared the same sentiments and personal stories about the horrors of the Castro regime. Hyroglyphx writes:
I know people who fled from Chile after the Americans helped Pinochet overthrow Allende. I know people who fled El Salvador's American-backed death squads.
Interesting how it isn't the other way around, well, EVER. Hyroglyphx writes:
Back to my original point, which you kinda sorta halfway agreed with, the merits of a system can not be judged by how hard somebody tried to destroy the system.
What fucking planet do you live on that even in 2020 you would have the balls to try and defend an indisputable failure? Hyroglyphx writes:
I didn't say a word about Marxism - which supports the conclusion that you don't know what I think. Marxism is a sham."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
It was American stupidity that hardened Castro's line and forced him into the Soviet camp. But of course you couldn't risk the possibility of actual socialism How might that have happened?
Sure, if you only listen to one side of the story, you're likely to get a one-sided story. Ringo, we aren't talking about a handful of defectors.... We are talking about tens of thousands of people over the span of multiple decades so terrified of Fidel and his government that they risked death just to arrive at their own political enemy's doorstep for salvation. And, wow, look at that... They're flourishing.
I know people who fled from Chile after the Americans helped Pinochet overthrow Allende. I know people who fled El Salvador's American-backed death squads. Wow, people fleeing war zones.... Insane. I'm talking about Americans getting on rafts to flee the US in search of a better way of life in Cuba. How often does that happen because of the awful, repressive American hegemony? You have no argument.
Back to my original point, which you kinda sorta halfway agreed with, the merits of a system can not be judged by how hard somebody tried to destroy the system. Expound, please.
I didn't say a word about Marxism You didn't have to.... It doesn't take a meteorologist to know which direction the wind is blowing from. Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given."Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
You might have given Castro the aid he needed to clean up the mess that Batista and your gangsters left instead of a knee-jerk over-reaction of blind hatred.
How might that have happened? Hyroglyphx writes:
Chile was not a war zone.
Wow, people fleeing war zones... Hyroglyphx writes:
In the Trump years we've had refugees crossing into Canada in the dead of winter, losing fingers and toes, to flee the US in search of a better life in Canada.
I'm talking about Americans getting on rafts to flee the US in search of a better way of life in Cuba. Hyroglyphx writes:
See above. And we've had other waves of refugees from the US.
How often does that happen because of the awful, repressive American hegemony? Hroglyphx writes:
Should be self-explanatory. Invest billions of dollars for decades to try to bring down the American economy and see what happens. Then claim it failed because it was unworkable from the start.
ringo writes:
Expound, please. ... the merits of a system can not be judged by how hard somebody tried to destroy the system. Hyroglyphx writes:
For an unthinking right-wing fanatic, maybe not. ringo writes:
You didn't have to.... It doesn't take a meteorologist to know which direction the wind is blowing from. I didn't say a word about Marxism I have mentioned before that Phat is more of a Marxist than I am. He's the one who talks about class struggle. I am no follower of Marx."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: It sure didnt work in the Soviet Union. Now we are faced with Cold War II and some experts say that the Communist Chinese government might win this one. Don't you see why this is a threat to the ubiquitous American Dream? I will admit that the American Dream is out of reach of all but the class right above mine. I see examples of people succeeding in lower economic quadrants, but they are apparantly happy with about what I have...and raising families on it to boot! It was American stupidity that hardened Castro's line and forced him into the Soviet camp. But of course you couldn't risk the possibility of actual socialism working on your doorstep. The dissidents that Hyro likely met in Miami were onetime small business owners who got wrecked when Castro took over. That's what Trump wants to prevent happening here. We are not simply going to let every liberal protesting on the streets and demanding their stimulus check...which just kicks the proverbial can further along get free handouts which we must then make up for through higher taxes and working harder.We dont want to raise the poor up to the same level and thus have to give up our ambition and settle for the same thing they get. If they cant hustle and compete, they are not gonna make the government support them. (except for me...I'm old and need my social security checks. But I have an excuse.) See the extremes I am stuck between?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
We dont want to raise the poor up to the same level and thus have to give up our ambition and settle for the same thing they get.
cause as jesus said "the poor? fuck those guys"It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I realize that I am ranting and that I am not representing Jesus very well whenever I do so. Thanks for making the point, however.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
You might have given Castro the aid he needed to clean up the mess that Batista and your gangsters left instead of a knee-jerk over-reaction of blind hatred. Batista was a dictator who was supplanted by a dictator.
Chile was not a war zone. What does any of it have to do with what I said, that you see Cubans coming to America not the other way around?
In the Trump years we've had refugees crossing into Canada in the dead of winter, losing fingers and toes, to flee the US in search of a better life in Canada. Yeah, like all the celebrities who vowed to move to Canada after Trump won the election but never went anywhere.
And we've had other waves of refugees from the US. No take backs!!!! Not sure what that has to do with Cuba but, okay...
Invest billions of dollars for decades to try to bring down the American economy and see what happens. Then claim it failed because it was unworkable from the start Who are you referring to?
For an unthinking right-wing fanatic, maybe not. I have mentioned before that Phat is more of a Marxist than I am. He's the one who talks about class struggle. I am no follower of Marx. Phat doesn't want his hard earned money going to people who contributed nothing to the pot. I suppose that is Marxist, since Stalin threw those who did the same in Gulags! "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Billions of dollars were spent over seventy years to make it not work. I could prevent you from working with a ten-dollar crowbar to the kneecaps.
It sure didnt work in the Soviet Union. Phat writes:
I'm not talking about dreams. I'm talking about history.
Don't you see why this is a threat to the ubiquitous American Dream? Phat writes:
You're stuck between the right wing (Silly Party) and the extreme right wing (Very Silly Party). You need to get out of the nest. See the extremes I am stuck between?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
Batista was out for himself and out for the American gangsters. Castro was out for the people.
Batista was a dictator who was supplanted by a dictator. Hyroglyohx writes:
You're pretending that people only flee from socialism and I'm pointing out that you're factually wrong.
What does any of it have to do with what I said, that you see Cubans coming to America not the other way around? Hyroglyphx writes:
No, like the refugees crossing into Canada in the dead of winter, losing fingers and toes, to flee the US in search of a better life in Canada. Thousands of them. Don't trivialize them.
Yeah, like all the celebrities who vowed to move to Canada after Trump won the election but never went anywhere. Hyroglyphx writes:
It shows that people flee FROM the US as well as to it.
Not sure what that has to do with Cuba... Hyroglyphx writes:
Everybody contributes. Phat doesn't want his hard earned money going to people who contributed nothing to the pot."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Yeah but the Left Wing is dominated by atheists, witches, all sorts of Trans Sexual paganism, Greta, and assorted humanist tree huggers. You guys have your own version of Armageddon, scientifically backed by global warming. The nations may end up fighting over that too.
I don't trust human nature nor do I trust the "other" spirit."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Nonsense.
Yeah but the Left Wing is dominated by atheists, witches, all sorts of Trans Sexual paganism, Greta, and assorted humanist tree huggers. Phat writes:
The only "other" spirit here is your hateful spirit. I don't trust human nature nor do I trust the "other" spirit. (Trans Sexual paganism? What the hell is wrong with you?)"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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