For those concerned with Free Speech (or Porn), it is time to get active.

I certainly have followed the thread. Read every post. That has nothing to do with the contradiction of quoting forced prostitution as as a negative side effect of sexual freedom (which you did and I will quote it if needed) when forced prostitution is exactly the opposite of sexual freedom.Also, as has been stated by at least one other person, Schrafinator never said that India is superior because of sexual imagery. Lets make this a test case. You have made a claim, Faith. I quote it: I am challenging the inherent implication in this, that Schrafinator made the claim that India was superior due to religious sexual imagery. I have reviewed all her posts in this thread and she never said anything that could be so interperted.So, either support your claim or withdraw it. That's how debate works. Can you do it?No reasonable person will yell what you claim. You preface the paragraph containing your views of pornography with the clear disclaimer that it is your opinion. If you claim that your opinion reflects actual fact, then you would have to support it. By the way, in this case, your opinion does not reflect the facts, but that's okay. It's just your opinion.As far as the politeness, you get back from people what you put out to them. Get the point?

There are many movies in which one could find degradation to be the main theme without any other themes existing alongside it. "Theme" is a subjective attribute that can be found in just about any instance of symbolic communication and exists solely in the perceptions of the viewer.

It should be just like the workplace anywhere, with recourse to the law if one is sexually or otherwise harassed.This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-28-2005 12:38 PM

I am not going get into details of porn movies. To me it's obvious.There is a reason, maybe, wny most women don't like porn. They recognize it instantly as degrading to them. But then I'm not a woman and so am not sure what they think.

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I'm not necessarily disputing your point as much a pointing out that the degradation of women and the cult of a narrow standard of beauty lies much, much deeper in our society.

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Oh, yes, I agree that it's most definitely not just porn. I would say that porn is probably wider in what it considers attractive.

You are trying to dodge.1) I did not just mention movies, I mentioned many different forms of TV programs which are inherently degradational... much more so than porn.2) There are many different "genres" within porn. You say main theme, as if that is all porn, but then I ask you to show me what gives you any ability to say that? There are numerous indpendents and corps dedicated to themes that are quite the opposite of degradation. Most notable are women owned and run businesses that celebrate women being with women.3) What will this legislation do at all to reduce degradation? It does not even propose to address that issue. If someone were to make an accurate movie of the stories of the Bible it would not just be pornographic but quite misogynistic. Women are degraded endlessly, with God in one section having armies rape and then murder two girls who he had been busy watching have sex (since they were quite underage) with large penised men who shot lots of cum. The theme of the Bible, if I understand fundamentalists correctly IS degradation of both men and women. Everything centers around THE FALL.Woman caused the fall and men repeatedly fail and must ask forgiveness because they are unworthy. We must all believe we are unworthy. Right?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I'm not talking about subtle, symbolic themes: I am talking about what's obvious.

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Industries evolve for one reason and one reason only: demand.

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That's true, except that industry has also gotten very good at using advertizing and marketing techniques to create wants and needs in a population where before there were none.

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It's a special case because degradation is the main theme.

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There appears to be two points that you have been bringing up, that of degradation and that of abuse of women against their consent.Obviously, if women are being forced to take part in actions they find degrading and humiliating against their consent, then there is a problem that needs to be addressed.But, in this post, I am curious about the claims that pornography is degrading, and the implication that this requires regulation.It has been many, many decades since I have watched a pornographic film in its entirety. Can I ask you what is degrading about pornography? Is all pornography degrading? Most of it? Only a few examples are degrading?What does it take to be degrading? Is it possible to produce a movie that depicts graphic sexual content that is not degrading? If so, do these types of movies exist?Is this a problem requiring regulation? Are the proposed laws mentioned in the OP suitable for this purpose? What sorts of regulations would be suitable? What about regulations that would affect both degrading and non-degrading pornography (if such things exist) -- are they appropriate?

Susan Bright, Annie Sprinkle, Betty Dodson, and Abby Winters (among countless others) beg to disagree with you. They are women, they know what they think, and you are wrong.It is very possible that the women who don't like porn find it degrading, but not all women dislike porn. Many people who dislike the Xian religion find it degrading, but not all people dislike Xianity.That's usually how it works.Now what does this have to do with the legislation under consideration here?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

An aside:I was watching a Daily Show the other night and there was a field interview in which a female porn actress and actor both were members of the Republican party.The thing I had noticed was that the woman was either really drunk, under the influence of some drug, or has some kind of mental deficiency which makes her appear really stupid and unable to pay attention.How prevalent is drug addiction in the porn industry these days compared to straight acting?

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To me it's obvious.

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it's not to me - you either need to support your assumption or withdraw it.How does this statement:

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There is a reason, maybe, wny most women don't like porn. They recognize it instantly as degrading to them.

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match up with this one?

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But then I'm not a woman and so am not sure what they think.

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Please support the statement that most women don't like porn. You also need to provide evidence that "instantly" recognize that it is degrading to them.

Are you taking the piss? is that suppose to be a serious question?I really expect better from you.

Do you honestly believe this is true of porn, given sexual entertainment's prolific existence (including sexual imagery) throughout all of human history?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I mean only hardcore heterosexual porn, as I pointed out earilier. I know nothing about any other.