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Member (Idle past 379 days) Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: We Evolved Pretty Quickly | |||||||||||||||||||||||
zephyr Member (Idle past 4550 days) Posts: 821 From: FOB Taji, Iraq Joined: |
quote:No need to be so flippant, Mike. He's just throwing out numbers for the sake of discussion. If you want to question the concurrence of multiple independent dating methods for a particular piece of material, we could discuss that. In this case, it should be obvious that the point is unaffected by the exact numbers.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Well, I was throwing out numbers to support a point made in jest about movies. Which is different than making up numbers to support a worldview informed by a mistranslated book, and expecting the scientific community to follow suit.
I was making a joke. But creationism IS a joke.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Look, Mike, when you start doing a lot of reading and research and putting together careful, informed posts, THEN you might have earned the latitude to be sarcastic if someone makes a mistake.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
when you start doing a lot of reading and research and putting together careful, informed posts, On the other hand if any of that could describe me, I'd be very surprised. I think we've gone terminally off-topic.
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truthlover Member (Idle past 4059 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: |
They don't count because I'm a crappy historian. Whew. That's great.
So, 20,000 years, or even 200,000. Still way less than the dinosaurs. I agree.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
'Look, Mike, when you start doing a lot of reading and research and putting together careful, informed posts, THEN you might have earned the latitude to be sarcastic '
Lighten up mom, it was a splash and dash.Crashfrog and I are always boxing. Do you know me Schraf, how do you know I research or not? .Oh righteouss one.lol.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I can be lighter. How do I know if you research or not? If you do, you sure keep it a secret from all of us here.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: Jurassic Park is based on the novel by Micheal Crichton -- and hedoes do his researcha nd have access to various knowledgable sources (or so he claims)
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: How exactly DO you know that?
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zephyr Member (Idle past 4550 days) Posts: 821 From: FOB Taji, Iraq Joined: |
quote:Yeah, I heard the insects are conscious but hiding it from us. Seriously, though... it seems to be that there are degrees of consciousness, even among people, and one might argue that a few animals are further along the continuum than others. Look at the social structure of chimpanzees. Can each one be truly unconscious of its role in that system?
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Dr_Tazimus_maximus Member (Idle past 3217 days) Posts: 402 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Joined: |
Hi Peter, the following quote caught my attention.
quote:Actually I do not think that is 100% true. Yes, we and every other organism currently on the earth are the result of 3.5 to 3.8 By of evolution but that is not the same as specific traits being the result of the same time period of evolution. Substantial morphological or biochemical changes can lead to new traits which then lead to a whole new series of adaptations, and they may be fairly recent. A backbone for example, a closed circulatory system for another. Sex is one which has evolved several times. In my opinion, conciousness is likely to be one of those although I do think that it is part of a gradient and is therefor older than we are. ------------------"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur Taz
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Hi TL - I'm not going to dispute this until I know what reference you used (I'll open a new topic if you think it's worth discussing). However, you stated:
That's still a short time, but it's seems pretty objectionable to me to suggest that our meter wasn't running until some humans in the Middle East built a city and started destroying the world. It's possible we had villages in South America 60,000 years ago, and it's certain we had them there 20,000 years ago. Why don't those people count? I understand your intent was to correct crashfrog, but I question the figures. Could you provide a reference?
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Parasomnium Member Posts: 2224 Joined: |
How do I know consciousness (of the type we humans possess) is indeed unique in the animal kingdom?
First of all, I said "as far as I know", meaning I'm not sure. Secondly, if there were other beings on this planet with our type of consciousness, we would have had coffee with them or something. Or an all out war. In any case, we would have met them. Cheers. [This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 07-30-2003]
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
That was why I said 'How do you know' ... becuase
you said 'as far as I know'. Your answer tells me that you are guessing rather thanbasing your supposition on any particular data/research findings etc. How do you know that chimpanzees aren't conscious in thesame sense that we are? Or lions and tigers and bears, oh my... What is the measure of consciousness, or the method fordetecting it or ... hopefully you see what I am asking now.
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Peter Member (Idle past 1479 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: What I meant (rather than individual traits per se) was thatextant traits are founded on traits that preceded them. To say that the latest model of car is 'new' neglects the factthat without the Model-T it wouldn't exist in its current form. Evolution is a process of change and (very loosely speaking)refinement over time. It reminds me of Newton's 'If I have seen farther it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.' In specific reference to consciousness we cannot know thatdinosaurs (for example) were not conscious ... unless one comes up and asks us to tea of course. [This message has been edited by Peter, 07-30-2003]
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