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Author Topic:   Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 46 of 607 (560354)
05-14-2010 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by ICANT
05-14-2010 12:33 PM


Re: Anyone care to Refute ?
As I said in Message 27, what if Genesis 1 was written in a reverse apocalyptic language?
If "heavens and earth" refers to government and nation in apocalyptic prophetic writings, why not in Genesis 1?
At that time erets doesn't encompass the planet, so the creation aspect isn't necessarily more than a local issue.
I've have no major quibble with your natural reading of the story, but it is an intriguing thought when viewing the story through apocalyptic symbolism.
Although I don't think even that view would help Peg and her yom issues.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by ICANT, posted 05-14-2010 12:33 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by ICANT, posted 05-14-2010 5:21 PM purpledawn has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 47 of 607 (560366)
05-14-2010 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by purpledawn
05-14-2010 3:26 PM


Re: Anyone care to Refute ?
Hi PD,
prpledawn writes:
As I said in Message 27, what if Genesis 1 was written in a reverse apocalyptic language?
What if a frog had wings? He wouldn't bump his tail everytime he hopped.
I have spent much time conversing with Mr Jeff Vaughn at their web site you can probaly find me there.
I presented the same things there and gave them the opportunity to refute what the Bible says. They did like Peg does jumped up on their stump waveing their hands and shouting their beliefs. Which did not exist before the Reformation period.
Have you studied Preterist beliefs?
They have to ignore a lot of the Bible.
purpledawn writes:
At that time erets doesn't encompass the planet, so the creation aspect isn't necessarily more than a local issue.
Are you saying erets in Genesis 1:1 is not the earth?
purpledawn writes:
I've have no major quibble with your natural reading of the story, but it is an intriguing thought when viewing the story through apocalyptic symbolism.
Are you saying that the verse by verse presentation is what the KJV Bible literally says?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by purpledawn, posted 05-14-2010 3:26 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by purpledawn, posted 05-15-2010 6:29 AM ICANT has not replied

Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 48 of 607 (560373)
05-14-2010 6:23 PM


+1 to Apocolyptic/Gospel Metaphysics
--"I know from verse 2 it had become uninhabitable as it was covered with water."
Albeit the scriptures state (Ps 24); the earth was "founded upon the seas and established upon the floods" ... supporting your literalist hypotheses ... somewhat ...
But "Heaven" becomes *redefined* by 'day 2' as the firmamental expanse; Earth becomes *redefined* as "dry land" on 'day 3' (IIRC, the same Hebrew word).
Just what "Heaven and Earth" ... *were before that* (Gen 1.1) ... I won't dogmatically speculate; but there may be *apocolyptic* similarities with the "New Heaven and New Earth" (Rev 21.1).
Of course: I accept your literalist views about H2O ... covering the earth as well ... and perhaps your diurnal clocks here; but ...
I do not comprehend "evening and morning", neither "light and time", nor the space-time continuum ... especially during the alpha and omega of the creation of God. Radiometric clocks themselves would go crazy during the 2nd day's heavenly expansion(1st 2nd and 3rd heavens, I'd hypothesize (2Co 12:2).
Though, perhaps YECish concerning diurnal time, I myself refute/refuse a literalist one-size-fits-all interpretation ... of Gen 1.2. ... and other scriptures that have compound meanings and dimensions (e.g., apocolyptic, poetic, surreal, spiritual, gospel, etc.).
While God speaks as a YEC ... I am not glorified enough to understand the true science of it.
My 1st grader reads Genesis 1 without getting hyper-inquisitive (unlike me). God appears to oversimplify Genesis 1.1 for my sanity's sake: Your/my creationist schemes may contain personal viewpoints and faith-hypotheses to fill in the Gen 1.1-2 gap(s) ... that sync with the scriptures but have a personal significance.
(Well I'm rambling ... sorry)

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 05-15-2010 6:57 PM Philip has not replied

Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 49 of 607 (560400)
05-14-2010 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by purpledawn
05-14-2010 11:37 AM


Re: Yom
purpledawn writes:
But what you haven't learned and refuse to hear is that just because a word is used figuratively in another sentence doesn't mean it is used figuratively in all sentences.
Until you provide the indicators within the sentence that tells us that the figurative meaning of yom is to be used, you're just wasting posts and time.
that same goes the other, just because it is used literally in one verse does not mean it is used literally in all verses.
I guess you've fixed that argument though by claiming that there are no indicators in a sentence showing when the word is used literally. Yet you demand the opposite for when a word is used figuratively.
Just as there are no indicators for a literal use, there are no indicators for a figurative use....however, i could say that the geology itself is the indicator for a figurative use.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by purpledawn, posted 05-14-2010 11:37 AM purpledawn has replied

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 Message 51 by purpledawn, posted 05-15-2010 6:35 AM Peg has not replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 50 of 607 (560423)
05-15-2010 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by ICANT
05-14-2010 5:21 PM


Preterism
quote:
Have you studied Preterist beliefs?
Just read a little, but not really concerned with their doctrines. I think most anyone's doctrines jump through some hoops. It doesn't mean they can't contribute a piece to the puzzle. I'm looking at what's written. I'm not worried about whether it clashes with someone's belief system or doctrine.
The Bible has apocalyptic language. I don't think that is contested other than by extremists. In those days (that's for Peg ) exaggeration was a style of writing. I think scholars have determined that also.
So given that Genesis 1 was in all reality written by a Priest after the collapse of the Northern Kingdom, it could very well be written in that type of language instead of what we think it is saying.
As I said to Peg, when there is symbolism involved we have no way to know what it stands for without knowing the history of the culture and discovering what their symbols or idioms were. Those we can't discover are lost to us. Which means there could be parts of the Bible that we are reading incorrectly and will always read incorrectly because the meaning is lost in time.
You probably know what I mean when I say, "You really blotted your copy book this time."; but my daughter wouldn't know. My grandson won't know. They would have to research back in history. With the internet, as long as the information is there they can find out. Once that is gone or falls off the radar, it will be lost.
quote:
Are you saying erets in Genesis 1:1 is not the earth?
No, I'm saying it's not the Earth. Capitalization conveys a whole different view. Not The Planet
Erets at that time was not the name of the planet. (Globe of Crates)
It referred to local or known lands and regions or countries. From our perspective the word land is a better translation really, since Earth is now the name of the planet and we tend to use the word land to refer to local areas, regions, kingdoms, and countries. The average person wouldn't have imagined beyond what they knew.
Given that, even the natural reading refers to a limited area, not the planet. Why would it be a stretch to think the writer was writing in an apocalyptic manner to present the creation of the nation?
It is intriguing. I may have to start a thread concerning Preterism and you can show me what they ignore in the Bible. It will be a week before I can get to that, but I do find it interesting.
quote:
Are you saying that the verse by verse presentation is what the KJV Bible literally says?
I don't understand what you're asking.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by ICANT, posted 05-14-2010 5:21 PM ICANT has not replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 51 of 607 (560424)
05-15-2010 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Peg
05-14-2010 11:23 PM


Re: Yom
quote:
that same goes the other, just because it is used literally in one verse does not mean it is used literally in all verses.
Exactly! Hence the indicators or clues.
quote:
I guess you've fixed that argument though by claiming that there are no indicators in a sentence showing when the word is used literally. Yet you demand the opposite for when a word is used figuratively.
Go back and read the article. I'm not demanding anything. I didn't create the rules of grammar and language. You're supposedly studying Hebrew. Go check your books. There are indicators in the language, just like there are in the English language that tell us when a figurative meaning of yom/day is used. I didn't decide that. I have no authority to change those rules, just as you don't.
If you're going to continue this, please take it back to the proper thread.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Peg, posted 05-14-2010 11:23 PM Peg has not replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 52 of 607 (560522)
05-15-2010 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Philip
05-14-2010 6:23 PM


The Genesis 1:1 Creation
Hi Philip,
Philip writes:
While God speaks as a YEC ... I am not glorified enough to understand the true science of it.
Where does God speak as a YEC?
God said He created the heaven and the earth in the beginning.
When was the beginning?
When did Genesis 1:1 take place? The Bible says in the beginning.
Some scientist tells us it was 13.7 billion years ago. Others tell us it was 20 billion years ago. Still others tell us there has been a progression of expansions which ended in collapses that have been going on for eternity.
Philip writes:
God appears to oversimplify Genesis 1.1 for my sanity's sake: Your/my creationist schemes may contain personal viewpoints and faith-hypotheses to fill in the Gen 1.1-2 gap(s) ... that sync with the scriptures but have a personal significance.
Genesis 1:1 is not simple as the history (generations) are declared to begin in Genesis 2:4.
Moses writes:
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
I know from this verse that the following things are the history of the creation of the heaven and the earth in Genesis 1:1.
I know from Genesis 1:1 That the heaven and the earth was created in the beginning. It was already in existence when Genesis 1:2 took place. Therefore it was not created during the 6 days described in Genesis 1:2-31.
Verse 4 of chapter 2 is the beginning of the history of what happened in the day (light period) the heaven and the earth was created.
I know from verse 5 there was no life on earth. There was no man, plant, tree, or herb of the field and it had not rained on the earth.
I know from verse 6 God caused the earth to be water from a mist that came from underground.
I know from verse 7 the first life form on earth was man that God formed a man of the dust of the ground.
I also know God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and that man became a living being.
I know from verse 8 Eden existed and God planted a garden eastward in Eden. God then put the man in this garden.
I know from verse 9 God caused every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food to grow. He also provided the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I know from verse 10 that a river went out of Eden to water the garden. After watering the garden it divided into 4 rivers.
I know from verses 11-14 some information about these rivers. I don't know the purpose of these verses.
I know from verse 15 that God gave the man He had formed from the dust of the ground a job. He was to dress the garden and keep it.
I know from verses 16 and 17 that the man was told he could eat of every tree of the garden except he could not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I also know that he was told if he did eat of that tree he would die the same day. It does not say if God explained what death was but since God is just He had to explain it to the man.
I know from verse 18 God said it was not good for man to be alone and He said He would make him an help meet.
I know from verse 19 God formed every animal and every fowl from the ground. He then brought them to the man to see what he would call them.
I know from verse 20 the man gave names to all cattle, all fowl, and the beast of the field. But God had not made a help meet for the man yet.
I know from verse 21 God removed a rib from the man.
I know from verse 22 God cloned a woman from the rib He had taken from the man, and brought her to him.
That concluded the creation events recorded in this history. But there is much history left.
I know from verse 23 that the man said this is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh and that she would be called woman.
I know from verse 24 the man said because of this man will leave home and cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.
I know from verse 25 they were naked and were not ashamed. They lived in perfect inn once.
I know at this time there had been no water creatures created.
I know at this time there is no mention of seas.
I know that this is the record of what happened in Genesis 1:1 as Genesis 2:4 declares that it is.
Thus I have described here a creation that is covered in Chapter 2.
There are several noticeable differences in the stories found in the two chapters, therefore they can not be the same event.
In chapter 2 man was the first life form created from the dust of the ground, placed in a garden and told he could eat the fruit from all trees but one.
In chapter 1 man and woman is created at the same time after all other creatures and vegetation, they were never placed in a garden. They were never commanded not to eat the fruit of any tree. If fact they were told they could eat fruit of all the trees. They were blessed and told to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.
In chapter 2 all creatures were formed from the ground. In chapter 1 all creatures (except water creatures and man who were created) were called from the ground after their kind.
In chapter 2 all vegetation was called forth from the earth. In chapter 1 all vegetation was called forth from the seed that was in the ground.
In chapter 2 the earth only had a river that divided into 4 that watered the earth. In chapter 2 the earth was covered with water.
The events in chapter 2 took place at the beginning.
The events that took place in chapter 1 beginning at verse 2 took place some 6,000 years ago.
But there is the objection it is just two stories of the same events that was recorded by two different people.
The problem with that is that God only told the story to Moses. Nobody believes that Moses wrote anything as he was too uneducated to be able to write besides he had nothing to write on.
Well Moses was one of the best educated men of his day as he was educated in Pharaoh's house with all the amenities of such a position.
Well he didn't have anything to write on. Since the children of Israel had just spent 400 years making clay bricks for the Egyptians why would they have a problem making clay tablets for Moses to write on.
We are told in Exodus chapter 24 that Moses wrote all the words of the Lord. All these things were to be read every seven years and rehearsed among the people.
So there is no problem with who wrote the first books of the Bible as far as God's children are concerned. Others may have all kinds of problems with the Bible because it is foolishness to them.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Philip, posted 05-14-2010 6:23 PM Philip has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Straggler, posted 05-15-2010 7:11 PM ICANT has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 53 of 607 (560523)
05-15-2010 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ICANT
05-15-2010 6:57 PM


Re: The Genesis 1:1 Creation
In chapter 2 man was the first life form created from the dust of the ground, placed in a garden and told he could eat the fruit from all trees but one.
In chapter 1 man and woman is created at the same time after all other creatures and vegetation, they were never placed in a garden. They were never commanded not to eat the fruit of any tree. If fact they were told they could eat fruit of all the trees. They were blessed and told to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.
Are you saying man was created twice?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ICANT, posted 05-15-2010 6:57 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ICANT, posted 05-15-2010 7:38 PM Straggler has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 54 of 607 (560528)
05-15-2010 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Straggler
05-15-2010 7:11 PM


Re: The Genesis 1:1 Creation
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Are you saying man was created twice?
When you put it that way, yes.
The one in Genesis 2:7 was formed from the dust of the ground in the beginning whenever that was.
The one I call modern man created in the image of God in Genesis 1:27 somewhere around 6,000 years ago.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Straggler, posted 05-15-2010 7:11 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Straggler, posted 05-15-2010 7:46 PM ICANT has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 55 of 607 (560531)
05-15-2010 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by ICANT
05-15-2010 7:38 PM


Re: The Genesis 1:1 Creation
Are you saying man was created twice?
When you put it that way, yes.
ICANT even by the high standards of creationists you hold some very weird views.
The one in Genesis 2:7 was formed from the dust of the ground in the beginning whenever that was.
Any clue as to when at all? Were these first humans the same as we know humans to be now?
The one I call modern man created in the image of God in Genesis 1:27 somewhere around 6,000 years ago.
That is the Adam and Eve ones yeah? The ones we are descended from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ICANT, posted 05-15-2010 7:38 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ICANT, posted 05-15-2010 9:06 PM Straggler has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 56 of 607 (560540)
05-15-2010 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Straggler
05-15-2010 7:46 PM


Re: The Genesis 1:1 Creation
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
ICANT even by the high standards of creationists you hold some very weird views.
It took you this long to figure that out.
I have never claimed to be your run of the mill YEC creationist or the run of the mill OEC.
I am just me.
Straggler writes:
Any clue as to when at all? Were these first humans the same as we know humans to be now?
When? No Where? Yes earth. Were they the same as us? No, the scripture does not say they were created in the image of God.
If the universe has imploded 1 time or several times it was when the first universe began to exist.
Opp's that means there would be no trace of them wouldn't it.
Then it could have happened 1000's of times and we were not told as we do not need to know.
Eternity to us is a very long time.
Straggler writes:
That is the Adam and Eve ones yeah? The ones we are descended from?
I am not to sure of that as the scripture does not say how many He created. It only says mankind male and female it did not say one man and one woman.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Straggler, posted 05-15-2010 7:46 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2010 10:32 AM ICANT has replied

Philip
Member (Idle past 4722 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 57 of 607 (560546)
05-15-2010 10:57 PM


Gen 1.1 vs. 1.2 and Gen 1 vs. Gen 2
There are parallel seemingly opposing spiritual viewpoints and realities also with ...
Ezekiel's old vision of the Heavenly Temple vs. John's visions in Revelation
Scriptures (IMHO) seem to give dispensations and/or view-points ... all of which are true ... some are weightier today during a "dispensation of grace":
Some viewpoints may be:
1) Blue-prints (like Noah's ark and, the tabernacle, the Ezra's temple);
2) Others Mosaic and legalistic: Solomon's temple, Ezekiels temple, Herod's temple, etc.
3) Others cannot be uttered (lawfully): "Seven thunders" of John, Paul's visions of 3rd Heaven, date of Christ's 2nd return ... etc.
4) Other revelations and perspectives by individuals (whose perceptions validate and compliment opposing perceptions)
5) Even Solomon had seemingly inferior yet perfectly valid perceptions of God and man in Ecclesiastes. Such perceptions may perhaps answer to cross-burdened individuals vexed by conflicts and vanity in a cursed creation.
Also regarding: Gen 1.1 vs. 1.2 and Gen 1 vs. Gen 2 events
1) God's timeline of "evening and morning" seems very holy and pure; many events during the *tidy* intervals are good ... originating from God above.
2) Gen 2 seems (to me) a similar a narrative dispensation and/or counterview and must compliment the holy week of Gen 1's "evening and morning" reality that ends with the holy Sabbath of rest (e.g., in Christ). Gen 2 occurs on earth with Jehovah-God's equally critical viewpoints.
3) Hypothetically: Scriptural *embryonic* development (Gen 1.1 vs. 1.2 and Gen 1 vs. Gen 2) may be much more complex than any creature's embryonic development ... neither of which I am glorified enough to understand at all (though I am a scientist and physician). Scriptural development is exceedingly "fearfully and wonderfully made" (Ps 139)
4) You've noted the oppositions btw Gen 1.1 vs. 1.2 and Gen 1 vs. Gen 2 are reconcilable via Christian faith as well (gospel and/or apocalyptic?). Likewise, I struggle with these oppositions and metamorphoses.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Psa 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Psa 139:17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
Psa 139:18 If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee.

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 58 of 607 (560596)
05-16-2010 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by ICANT
05-15-2010 9:06 PM


Re: The Genesis 1:1 Creation
Straggler writes:
Were these first humans the same as we know humans to be now?
ICANT writes:
Where? Yes earth. Were they the same as us? No, the scripture does not say they were created in the image of God.
Then it what sense were they "human"?
Straggler writes:
That is the Adam and Eve ones yeah? The ones we are descended from?
I am not to sure of that as the scripture does not say how many He created. It only says mankind male and female it did not say one man and one woman.
So we are created from one set of humans but Adam and Eve were a different earlier set of humans? Is that right?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ICANT, posted 05-15-2010 9:06 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2010 1:23 PM Straggler has replied

ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 59 of 607 (560621)
05-16-2010 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Straggler
05-16-2010 10:32 AM


Re: The Genesis 1:1 Creation
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Then it what sense were they "human"?
They had a physical body as the man was formed from the dust of the earth. The woman then being cloned from a rib of the man.
They had a mind as the man named all the creatures. They had the ability to make decisions. They had the ability to produce children which could commit murder, build cities and all had the ability to disobey God.
I find no place they had a spirit. Some say they did as the man became a living soul when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. The problem with that is that the Hebrew word translated as soul means living being.
That is all the things I can know from what is written.
Straggler writes:
So we are created from one set of humans but Adam and Eve were a different earlier set of humans? Is that right?
If you are referring to the Adam and Eve that was in Chapter 2 in the garden, we are no physical kin to them. The only kinship would be that we are mankind and they were mankind.
We are the product of the mankind and womankind that was created in Genesis 1:27 who were created in the image of God.
We have a body, mind, and a spirit that is eternal.
Now whether there was two of these people or a bunch of them is not stated. There could have been hundreds or thousands of them the Bible does not say. It only says mankind male and female.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2010 10:32 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Iblis, posted 05-16-2010 1:46 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 64 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2010 6:09 PM ICANT has replied

Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 60 of 607 (560623)
05-16-2010 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by ICANT
05-16-2010 1:23 PM


Occam's Garden Spade
If you are referring to the Adam and Eve that was in Chapter 2 in the garden, we are no physical kin to them. The only kinship would be that we are mankind and they were mankind.
We are the product of the mankind and womankind that was created in Genesis 1:27 who were created in the image of God.
If we aren't descended from them, how did we inherit their fruit catalyzed Lamarckian degeneration into sin and infamy? If we are descended from the perfect pair made in the image etc. why ain't we perfect?
Was Cain the child of the garden of Eden pair, or of the other pair some awesomely indefinite time long afterward? If the latter, how did he happen to move just east of Eden? If the former, then Seth was their son too, as he was spoken of as a replacement for Abel whom Cain slew. But if we aren't descended from them, then why does the Adam -- Seth -- Enos genealogy from those garden passages make it into the other guy's bloodline and ride along all the way up to Luke?
Or, if the guy in chapter 2 somehow isn't the guy in chapter 3, why is it such a smooth easy consistent passage from one to the other, with the same named setting and with characters having the same names and attributes. Were there not only two Ish and Ishshah, but two Edens, two Tree of Life, perhaps even two YHWH?
Try to be clear here. Multiplying entities needlessly is, you know, fun to watch.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2010 1:23 PM ICANT has replied

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 Message 61 by ICANT, posted 05-16-2010 4:07 PM Iblis has replied
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