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Author Topic:   Kansas State School Board At It Once Again
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 61 of 136 (201134)
04-22-2005 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by kjsimons
04-22-2005 9:23 AM


Re: More Idiocy!
When ID is trying to pretend to be science we get "non-deity" statements, however we also see statements like:
What is the tangible benefit of Intelligent Design for the Christian community? I think minimally it is that it will prevent our young people from being swept away by this materialist ideology. But beyond that, and I think this is what really is the driving force for me, it gives us the truth of creation
http://www.designinference.com/...04.ID_Orthodoxy_Heresy.htm
Intelligent design is not in the business of filling in the details of who or what the designer is. That's a task for theology and metaphysics
http://www.designinference.com/...001.03.ID_as_nat_theol.htm

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 62 of 136 (201139)
04-22-2005 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by custard
03-03-2005 3:36 PM


hahaha communications. hahahah

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 63 of 136 (201382)
04-23-2005 8:47 AM


Kathy Martin speaks
Kathy Martin is a Member of the school board in this case.
The Clay Center Dispatch attributes the following to her:
ID is not strictly Christian, but it is theistic.
Of course this is a Christian agenda. We are a Christian Nation
Why shouldn't theology be taught in the classroom? Morality ought to be
taught in every class. Prayer ought to be allowed. Whenever a child
wanted to pray in class, I prayed with them
Clay Center Dispatch

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 Message 64 by jar, posted 04-23-2005 9:48 AM PaulK has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 64 of 136 (201393)
04-23-2005 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by PaulK
04-23-2005 8:47 AM


Re: Kathy Martin speaks
Well, I happen to believe that Theology should be taught in the classroom. I'd go so far as to say that Sacred Studies should be one of the continuing mandatory subjects from at least the First Form on.
A good Sacred Studies section would include the many Judaeo sects as well as a large dose of all the other variations. It should include grounding in the Mythos as well as secular/philosophic contributions.
That would be a great place to introduce ID and Creationist theories. The wealth of information and ideas, the sheer beauty of some of the creation tales is worthwhile knowledge.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by PaulK, posted 04-23-2005 10:05 AM jar has replied
 Message 83 by tsig, posted 05-08-2005 3:33 AM jar has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 65 of 136 (201397)
04-23-2005 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by jar
04-23-2005 9:48 AM


Re: Kathy Martin speaks
Well my answer is not in every class, and it must be taught in an even-handed way. When you get teachers wanting to put their religious beliefs into science classes how can you trust them to fairly teach about other religions ?

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 66 of 136 (201400)
04-23-2005 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by PaulK
04-23-2005 10:05 AM


Re: Kathy Martin speaks
I agree. That is why I say it should be a seperate study area, Sacred Studies. I cannot imagine anyone who is well grounded in Sacred Studies would ever mix the two areas of searching and knowledge.
It's interesting that when I ask many supporting ID or Creationism if they have read the Bible, the works of Mencius, writings of Confucious, various philosophers, Greek and other Mythology, Lao Zi, the Eight Fold Path and other of the most basic Theological and Moral works man has created, I invariably either get no answer or a response that "The others don't matter". If they are ignorant of the basis for beliefs, how can we expect them to make reasonable judgements or take reasonable actions?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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Demosthenes Fan
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 136 (201634)
04-23-2005 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jar
04-23-2005 10:14 AM


Re: Kathy Martin speaks
I agree with you, I am all for a comparative religion class in schools, but we should definitely draw a line. Religion does not belong in the biology classroom, just as physics does belong in a sacred studies class.

"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife." ~ Douglas Adams
I wish more people would shave with Occam's Razor. Orson Scott Card

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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 68 of 136 (205312)
05-05-2005 2:29 PM


Back on topic - The hearings begin....
Here is a link to the latest on the school board
hearings
Do the school board reps really doubt the veracity of evolutionary theory themselves, or is this just a case of politicians pandering to a perceived bias against evolution in their overwelmingly religious electorate ?
Will they allow the creationists and pro-ID supporters to meddle with the science standards that guide teachers and 'water down' all assertions pertaining to the validity and general applicability of evolutionary theory, even at the risk of making the state an academic laughing stock again?
Any opinions? Conspiracy theories?
One thing is certain: the quality of public education for the students is at stake. They are the real pawns in this shell game.

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by mikehager, posted 05-05-2005 8:50 PM EZscience has replied
 Message 70 by Jazzns, posted 05-06-2005 12:17 PM EZscience has replied
 Message 72 by coffee_addict, posted 05-06-2005 1:53 PM EZscience has replied

  
mikehager
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 69 of 136 (205414)
05-05-2005 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by EZscience
05-05-2005 2:29 PM


Re: Back on topic - The hearings begin....
This has had me pissed off all day long. I can see why many people on the side of right in this case have opted not to be involved with these kangaroo court proceedings. The voice of reason is a whisper lost in the clamor of the crowd, even more in Kansas this week then as is usual.
If the members of that school board are congenitally stupid enough to believe the garbage they are pushing, they are not fit for being allowed outside by themselves, much less to hold public office.
If they are cynical and uncaring enough to let a perceived political advantage (in hold a school board seat of all the petty things) harm every student in a state, they are scoundrels who deserve to be run out of town on a rail.
If the majority of people in Kansas are ignorant enough to let this happen, then they are getting the educational system they deserve. The kids don't deserve it, but what can you do?
Those citizens of Kansas wise and informed enough to oppose this nonsense should be proud. To those people I say, keep going and fight the fools.

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 70 of 136 (205590)
05-06-2005 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by EZscience
05-05-2005 2:29 PM


Re: Back on topic - The hearings begin....
News subscriptions are evil. Can you quote some of the relevant pieces of the article?

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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 71 of 136 (205592)
05-06-2005 12:22 PM


Love this bumper sticker "Leave No Child Behind: Teach Evolution" !
Someone should place these on all the Kansas state school board members vehicles!
Link: http://spot.colorado.edu/~klym/bumper.htm

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 72 of 136 (205618)
05-06-2005 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by EZscience
05-05-2005 2:29 PM


Re: Back on topic - The hearings begin....
EZ writes:
Do the school board reps really doubt the veracity of evolutionary theory themselves, or is this just a case of politicians pandering to a perceived bias against evolution in their overwelmingly religious electorate ?
The problem is almost anyone can get onto the school board. In central Illinois a few years back a 18 year old christian fundy creo got on the board in Normal.
Just because these people are on the school board doesn't mean they can read.
ABE
Gallop pollsGallop polls show that there is a correlation between the level of education and support for evolution.
This message has been edited by Troy, 05-06-2005 01:59 PM
{Fixed link. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-06-2005 02:31 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 73 of 136 (205629)
05-06-2005 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by mikehager
05-05-2005 8:50 PM


Re: Back on topic - The hearings begin....
mikehager writes:
Those citizens of Kansas wise and informed enough to oppose this nonsense should be proud. To those people I say, keep going and fight the fools.
We are "Kansas Citizens for Science"
Welcome kcfs.org - BlueHost.com
..and we thank you for your support !

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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 74 of 136 (205631)
05-06-2005 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by coffee_addict
05-06-2005 1:53 PM


Re: Back on topic - The hearings begin....
troy writes:
Gallop pollsGallop polls show that there is a correlation between the level of education and support for evolution.
No wonder the creo's are trying to corrupt the education system.
They need to ensure there is sufficent *lack* of education in the next generation that they can continue to peddle their wares !

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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 75 of 136 (205634)
05-06-2005 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by kjsimons
05-06-2005 12:22 PM


I like it.
It could also read:
"Leave every child behind: Teach creation science"

This message is a reply to:
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