Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,809 Year: 3,066/9,624 Month: 911/1,588 Week: 94/223 Day: 5/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Hauntings, Exorcisms and the Like
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 127 (162167)
11-21-2004 10:35 PM


Has anyone here watched those shows on TLC that talk about "real accounts" of people's houses being haunted and scary things that have happened? I was watching that today and this family had a "doorway to Hell" in their basement and their house needed an exorcist, but before that could happen the catholic church had to send people there to determine if in fact it was demonized.
I don't know what to think of all this being a non-believer. The accounts of the people sound authentic, but they didn't actually show any footage, and everything was re-dramatized. The people that came to test the house seemed real enough to be considered normal and not freaks or anything. It's actually kind of annoying watching those shows because is something like that actually happened I'd want to know if it was real. Wouldn't you? From the explanations they gave concerning the events that happened you would think they'd show SOMETHING that can pass as evidence, seeing as they were totally equipped with cameras and everything, but no, they didn't. Just the corny dramatizations.... What do you guys think? I don't mean to be selective either, but I'm just looking for the non-believer's replys. No offence, but it makes sense too.
-Mission

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminJar, posted 11-21-2004 10:39 PM Mission for Truth has not replied
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 12:09 AM Mission for Truth has not replied
 Message 9 by arachnophilia, posted 11-22-2004 2:00 AM Mission for Truth has not replied

AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 127 (162168)
11-21-2004 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
11-21-2004 10:35 PM


Should this be part of....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mission for Truth, posted 11-21-2004 10:35 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 127 (162179)
11-22-2004 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
11-21-2004 10:35 PM


The Supernatural Evil
Demons are real. I, a Christian, was attacked by one many years ago in my sleep. How do I know it was a demonic attack? It was about 39 years ago at about age 30. I had been already been an ardent student of the Bible for about 20 years since a child and had learned that one should not fear the spiritual evil, but resist and rebuke evil entities in the powerful name of Jesus!
I had, the day before the night of the dream sold at auction contents of a store I was clearing out and was quite exhausted. In my dream my wife and I entered a church where there were a few people sitting in the rear pews. We went in and sat in the row ahead of them. The preacher came in the same door we came into and walked up the right side isle to the podium way up front, with a number of empty rows of pews ahead of us. The preacher began his sermon in a normal quiet manner. He rapidly escalated the tone and volume of his voice and his message began accusing us. In this manner, he began walking down the right side isle towards us as he was loudly accusing us. His face distorted, his head grew larger and quickly he was directly in front of me and all I could see of him was this huge mouth wide open to devour me. Subconsiously, having been knowledgeable enough of the power of Jesus, I jumped to my feet directly in front of him and rebuked him in the name of Jesus! At that moment he began to shrivel down in size, sort of melt and vanished through the left side wall. I walked up the same right side isle that he'd came down, stepped up to the podium and began praising God, thanking him for Jesus, literally crying in my sleep as I was loudly praising God (silently in my sleep)before the small congregation for some time. I then woke up and continued praising and thanking God for delivering us from Satan, (still crying real tears) for a few minitues.
Note these factors:
1. It melted through the wall in my dream.
2. I cried real tears both in my sleep and after waking up
3. The nature of the dream, which I cannot explain except to say it was such that I never had before because everything was so realistic.
4. I have purposefully given the exact details of the dream because it was soooo real that I was aware and recalled the details of the dream immediately after waking up. I layed in bed for some time just thinking, about the details of it and praying.
5. The NT, somwhere, calls Satan, "the accuser of the brethren."
I've shared the above experience once before on this forum and once back when Newsmax had their forum going. I share it to warn that the supernatural evil, as well as the good does exist so as for others to be aware of it. I can recount some experiences of missionaries who visited churches I've been in also who have had encounters, much different than mine, one of which a missionary from New Gineau back in the 60's told of exorcising a demon from a very old witch doctor woman who had had total dominance over the the remote jungle tribe for a long time. He had came to minister to this tribe and knew he would be helpless with this woman's dominance. He fasted and prayed 3 days before confronting the woman and when he rebuked the demon in her,to his surprise, the woman fell dead. He questioned the tribal leaders and learned that this woman was much older than a person should be living, well over a hundred. He surmised that the demon was all that kept the woman alive. This man was not a Pentecostal minded Christian, but Christian & Missionary Alliance, which is not very "charismatic." I believe he was being 100% honest, but, of course cannot verify either his nor my own experience.
Yes, the supernatural, both good and evil do exist. I am 100% absolutely positive of that fact. (Don't ask me to prove it to you. I can't. I can cite things like this and the prophecies, but each must decide for one's self.
WARNING! DO NOT, I SAY, DO NOT EVER CONFRONT SUPERNATURAL EVIL WITHOUT INVOLKING THE NAME OF JESUS. Why? Because the supernatural, both good and evil are FAR more powerful than humans. They, on the other hand, FEAR AND TREMBLE AT THE NAME OF JESUS. Why? Because Jesus is the mighty Lord, the Christ, and the only BORN SON OF THE LIVING TRUE GOD, JEHOVAH, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN THEM.
I sometimes hear preachers or laity railing at Satan in one manner or another, ordering him to go away, etc thinking they're accomplising something, but how deluded and foolish they are! According to the gospels, some desciples tried to deal with some superpowerful demons and ended up on the short side, literally, having their clothes torn off. Jesus said something like, "this kind goes not out but by prayer and fasting."
I usually don't do long posts, but this one needed be to make sense. I hope it's close enough to topic. Topic title seems to indicate so.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-22-2004 12:14 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mission for Truth, posted 11-21-2004 10:35 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 11-22-2004 12:46 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 5 by lfen, posted 11-22-2004 1:16 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 6 by Gilgamesh, posted 11-22-2004 1:20 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 8 by arachnophilia, posted 11-22-2004 1:53 AM Buzsaw has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 127 (162184)
11-22-2004 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
11-22-2004 12:09 AM


I have to know, Buz - when you talk about evil, like this, to people, do you pronounce it "eee-vill"? It seems like you would have to, to get the point across.
WARNING! DO NOT, I SAY, DO NOT EVER CONFRONT SUPERNATURAL EVIL WITHOUT INVOLKING THE NAME OF JESUS.
Don't forget a few vials of holy water, too. It does 2d4 holy damage against demons and undead.
But more seriously, thanks for that little tidbit. Does it work for atheists? Or will Jesus be mad that I'm invoking his name after years of rejecting his faith?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 12:09 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 11-22-2004 1:46 AM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 8:50 AM crashfrog has replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 5 of 127 (162188)
11-22-2004 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
11-22-2004 12:09 AM


Re: The Supernatural Evil
How do the demons know the name Jesus? Wasn't his real name Yeshua, however that is pronounced in Hebrew?
Buz, I've had some very untypical very vivid dreams also and they seemed to occur when I was very tired often having gone without much sleep for a spell. They are real dreams of course but that is neurological activity of a fatigued brain how does that equate to "demons are real"? Your story clearly makes the point that demons are something we dream up!
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 12:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 127 (162189)
11-22-2004 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
11-22-2004 12:09 AM


Re: The Supernatural Evil
Firstly Buz, Mission for Truth specifically stated that he wanted replies from non-believers.
Demons are real. I, a Christian, was attacked by one many years ago in my sleep.
What a tirade. I have not yet used a swear word on this forum, but now I have to. It was a dream, Buz, for fuck's sake.
When I was a teenager, being bombarded by Christian fundamentalism and it's imagary of supernatural good and evil, as well as viewing an unhealthy amount of adult rated horror films, I also has some wicked dreams/nightmares. They were nothing but adolescent nightmares. As a skeptical adult, I no longer have nightmares about mythical nonsense.
You live in a world full of imaginary horrors. It's to be expected that this stuff will permeate your subconcious.
I have also spent a significant amount of my adult life seeking evidence of the supernatural and have found zilch. Buz you posit no proof other than a dream and a 30 year old urban legend of a New Gineau witch doctor. As for the latter, I should point out that I have been involved with the Australian fundamentalist church that has had significant input into Papua New Gineau over the last 20 years. I am well aware of the fantastical stories that have arisen from the native congregations that are a product of the superstitious local culture, sensationalisation and mythmaking. I have found no credence in any religious legend that has arisen from that place.
I can assure you that non-Christians don't get visitations from demons, or Jesus for that matter, and if you ever left superstition behind, niether would you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 12:09 AM Buzsaw has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 127 (162193)
11-22-2004 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
11-22-2004 12:46 AM


Don't forget a few vials of holy water, too. It does 2d4 holy damage against demons and undead.
hahahahahahaha. nice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 11-22-2004 12:46 AM crashfrog has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 127 (162194)
11-22-2004 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
11-22-2004 12:09 AM


Re: The Supernatural Evil
WARNING! DO NOT, I SAY, DO NOT EVER CONFRONT SUPERNATURAL EVIL WITHOUT INVOLKING THE NAME OF JESUS. Why? Because the supernatural, both good and evil are FAR more powerful than humans. They, on the other hand, FEAR AND TREMBLE AT THE NAME OF JESUS. Why? Because Jesus is the mighty Lord, the Christ, and the only BORN SON OF THE LIVING TRUE GOD, JEHOVAH, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN THEM.
actually, if you invoke the name of the demon itself, you can control them. jesus even evidences this when he addresses hasatan by name. it's a pretty good way to get them to go away: ask them their names, and then address them by name and tell them to get lost.
and no, demons are not more powerful than humans, they're actually weaker because they have no freedom of choice, which is WHY you can order them away. the "power" just comes from being skilled at practical magic, and their incoporial nature.
so what's the prefered language in which to rebuke demons? hebrew? aramaic? latin? greek? i know exoricisms tend to be done in latin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 12:09 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2004 10:43 PM arachnophilia has replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 9 of 127 (162197)
11-22-2004 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
11-21-2004 10:35 PM


rule of thumb: if it has a re-enactment in it, it's not real.
now, one of these shows covered the only church-sanctioned exorcism in the united states. the story was the basis for the movie "the exorcist" so it tends to get some attention. a small child (who's identity/gender/name was never released) was "possesed" by the devil or evil spirit or whathaveyou. he or she seriously injured the local priest with a bed spring, threw huge fits, and was said to disturb the surrounding room by hurtling things through the air while tied to the bed.
now, no one REALLY knows what happened. but we do know that the child was really violent and insolent, did injure the priest with a laceration that ran the length of his arm, and that after the exorcism the child made a full recovery and led a perfectly normal life.
so whether or not spirits and demons and devils exist, exorcisms DO work. but i suspect that it's largely psychological.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mission for Truth, posted 11-21-2004 10:35 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 127 (162284)
11-22-2004 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
11-22-2004 12:46 AM


Good Question
Don't forget a few vials of holy water, too. It does 2d4 holy damage against demons and undead.
But more seriously, thanks for that little tidbit. Does it work for atheists? Or will Jesus be mad that I'm invoking his name after years of rejecting his faith?
Hey, me frogy friend. I would think if it works to an extent for Catholics whose doctrines of celibacy and meat abstinance, the Apostle Paul fingered as demonicly inspired, it might indeed work to some extent for athiests. At any rate, if you get into it with the spiritual evil, my advice is to go for it, the name of Jesus, that is. It might just come as a revelation and enlightment to you. Forget the so called holy water though. The only thing the demons respect is the holy name of the one who's holy blood redeems
I Timothy 4:1-3
Buz outa town with me dear wifie, Buzgirl to celibrate our 46th together. Go with God, Jehovah, that is. We have, all these years together, enjoying his blessings along life's bumpy roads and life's highways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 11-22-2004 12:46 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2004 1:44 AM Buzsaw has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 127 (162500)
11-23-2004 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Buzsaw
11-22-2004 8:50 AM


At any rate, if you get into it with the spiritual evil, my advice is to go for it, the name of Jesus, that is.
I'll be sure to keep that in mind. I doubt, however, that I have a high enough Charisma score to make a decent turning check. I simply can't turn undead or evil extraplanars with more than one or two Hit Die. (I wonder if Buz even knows what I'm referring to.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Buzsaw, posted 11-22-2004 8:50 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Buzsaw, posted 11-23-2004 10:18 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 13 by jar, posted 11-23-2004 10:25 PM crashfrog has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 127 (162800)
11-23-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
11-23-2004 1:44 AM


I'll be sure to keep that in mind. I doubt, however, that I have a high enough Charisma score to make a decent turning check. I simply can't turn undead or evil extraplanars with more than one or two Hit Die. (I wonder if Buz even knows what I'm referring to.)
I know scanty little about this hit dice war game stuff; certainly not enough to know how it relates to the demonic and specifically to my post. I might add, btw, concerning my post, that the more one assumes the responsibilities of Christianity, the more one can expect to get of it's blessings, such as protection from the supernatural evil, likely existing all around us to more of an extent than we realize.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-23-2004 10:19 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2004 1:44 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by nator, posted 11-27-2004 8:04 AM Buzsaw has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 127 (162801)
11-23-2004 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by crashfrog
11-23-2004 1:44 AM


Did Silver Bullets only work for the Lone Ranger?
Can Tonto shoot them Silver Bullets?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 11-23-2004 1:44 AM crashfrog has not replied

berberry
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 127 (162802)
11-23-2004 10:29 PM


So that's it! They think it's real!
Now I think I see why Christians are so scared of Harry Potter.

Dog is my copilot.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by NosyNed, posted 11-23-2004 10:35 PM berberry has not replied
 Message 18 by crashfrog, posted 11-24-2004 3:19 PM berberry has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 15 of 127 (162804)
11-23-2004 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by berberry
11-23-2004 10:29 PM


Re: So that's it! They think it's real!
It seems that anything written in a book can be taken as real no matter how unlikely. So, yea, I guess they might.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by berberry, posted 11-23-2004 10:29 PM berberry has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024