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Author Topic:   Bible Teachings or Traditions of Men?
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 376 of 385 (701702)
06-24-2013 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Alter2Ego
06-23-2013 10:55 PM


Re: Eternal Again
quote:
Actually, we are back to the fact that you refuse to accept that the word "eternal" only applies to someone or something that does not have a beginning or an end.
Unfortunately you haven't been able to provide support for your absolutes. The English word eternal is an adjective and as we can see the examples given don't necessarily mean can never have a beginning nor an end.
Eternity - Simple meaning
1 : having no beginning and no end in time : lasting forever
▪ eternal life ▪ eternal damnation ▪ eternal bliss ▪ the eternal flames of hell ▪ light an eternal flame [=a small fire that is kept burning as a symbol to show that something will never end]
2 : existing at all times : always true or valid
▪ eternal [=timeless] truths ▪ in search of eternal wisdom
3 : seeming to last forever
▪ When will his eternal whining stop?
This English adjective does not define the rules of existence for other beings.
quote:
In any event, since you are content in believing that every time you see the word "eternal" in the Bible with reference to created beings (humans and angels) and created things (mountains) which clearly had a beginning--but you insist the rendition is correct--go ahead and believe that.
It's clear that you don't really understand my position or the arguments I've presented. You're actually talking circles around yourself and aren't really addressing the arguments presented by the opposition.
quote:
Do not expect any further response from me as far as the word "eternal" is concerned.
I'm glad you've realized that your line of reasoning is flawed.
quote:
Neither should you expect any further response from me dealing trinity. In other words, I will not respond to anything else you post in this thread.
I understand. I didn't provide you with the standard arguments that would enable you to use your canned responses.
That's the fun of debate: Unexpected responses, adventures in dealing with different views.
Have a great summer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Alter2Ego, posted 06-23-2013 10:55 PM Alter2Ego has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 377 of 385 (703741)
07-29-2013 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
04-08-2013 2:33 AM


The Trinity for Eliyahu
Eliyahu has just proposed a new thread on the subject of the Trinity, but since the subject was discussed fairly recently here there's really no need for a new thread on the subject.
This thread was started by a Jehovah's Witness who is as concerned to argue that the Trinity is unbiblical as you are.
You can find my answer to this challenge in Message 20 of this thread, and in a lengthy study at Blue Letter Bible, here.
This is one of the few subjects that can only be answered by a list of scriptures that is too long to reproduce in a post. Here is a list of the topics covered in the outline:
An Outline Study
i.There Is One God
ii.This God is Known In The OT As Jehovah/Yahweh ("The Lord")
iii.God Is A Unique, Incomprehensible Being
iv.Is God One Person?
v.The Father Of Jesus Christ Is God
vi.Jesus Christ Is God
vii.The Holy Spirit Is God
viii.The Father, Son, And Holy Spirit Are Distinct Persons
ix.Conclusion
x.What Difference Does The Doctrine Of The Trinity Make?
So he starts of course with the scriptures that affirm that God is One. The Trinity is revealed by the other scriptures that describe the Messiah as God and Jesus Christ as God, the Holy Spirit as God etc.
So if you will consider this honestly you can see that the Trinity is definitely Biblical.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 04-08-2013 2:33 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Eliyahu, posted 08-16-2013 1:44 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 383 by purpledawn, posted 10-14-2013 10:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2260 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 378 of 385 (704745)
08-16-2013 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Faith
07-29-2013 4:31 AM


Re: The Trinity for Eliyahu
Bs'd
Just give me the verses which according to you show that the trinity is Biblical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Faith, posted 07-29-2013 4:31 AM Faith has not replied

  
Alter2Ego
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 72
From: Los Angeles, California
Joined: 04-06-2013


Message 379 of 385 (708717)
10-12-2013 5:58 PM


ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
Below is a verse of scripture that demonstrates the idiocy of the trinity dogma.
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." (Psalms 110:1 -- King James Version)
According to that scripture, God is literally talking to himself. During the conversation with himself, Jehovah (the Father) puts himself on his own right hand and refers to the enemy of the son (Jesus) as "your" enemy (indicating the enemy is Jesus' enemy and not Jehovah's), rather than using the possessive "our enemy"

"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 10-12-2013 6:03 PM Alter2Ego has not replied
 Message 384 by purpledawn, posted 10-14-2013 10:46 AM Alter2Ego has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 380 of 385 (708718)
10-12-2013 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Alter2Ego
10-12-2013 5:58 PM


Again you confuse the Persons with the One God, the typical mistake Jehovah's Witnesses make.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Alter2Ego, posted 10-12-2013 5:58 PM Alter2Ego has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Faith, posted 10-13-2013 1:04 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 381 of 385 (708723)
10-13-2013 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by Faith
10-12-2013 6:03 PM


Just happened to hear three really inspiring programs on Christian radio, one after the other, on a station that can be heard over the internet.
Two of the programs were on the history of heresies in the Church. Tomorrow all three will be repeated but not at the same times as today. They are all listed on the program for Pacific time so you have to convert to your time if you want to hear them.
Page not found | Pilgrim Radio
The programs are listed in the left margin.
Phil Johnson of John MacArthur's Masters College on heresis in the 19th century, will be repeated tomorrow: Sun. 8am, 10pm PACIFIC TIME (noon Eastern...)
R C Sproul on the 5th century heresy of Monophysitism which confounds the two natures of Christ. Last week he covered Arianism, which is the heresy of the Jehovah's Witnesses, so the timing is wrong for hearing that, but Monophysitism is also a JW heresy, so I thought Alter might be interested.
To be repeated tomorrow: Sun. 1pm, 9pm PACIFIC TIME
The third program I happened to hear was Ravi Zacharias Sun. 1:30pm, 9:30pm PACIFIC TIME. Right after Sproul.
Page not found | Pilgrim Radio
The programs are listed in the left margin.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Faith, posted 10-12-2013 6:03 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by onifre, posted 10-13-2013 12:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 382 of 385 (708731)
10-13-2013 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Faith
10-13-2013 1:04 AM


Tomorrow all three will be repeated but not at the same times as today. They are all listed on the program for Pacific time so you have to convert to your time if you want to hear them.
Sounds good. I needed to find something to listen to while I knit this sweater for my cat. Winter is coming!
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Faith, posted 10-13-2013 1:04 AM Faith has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 383 of 385 (708781)
10-14-2013 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Faith
07-29-2013 4:31 AM


Re: The Trinity for Eliyahu
Hey Faith,
Your link isn't taking us directly to the article.
This should take visitors to the article you referenced in Message 20: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Faith, posted 07-29-2013 4:31 AM Faith has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 384 of 385 (708788)
10-14-2013 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Alter2Ego
10-12-2013 5:58 PM


Translation Issue
quote:
Below is a verse of scripture that demonstrates the idiocy of the trinity dogma.
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool." (Psalms 110:1 -- King James Version)
According to that scripture, God is literally talking to himself. During the conversation with himself, Jehovah (the Father) puts himself on his own right hand and refers to the enemy of the son (Jesus) as "your" enemy (indicating the enemy is Jesus' enemy and not Jehovah's), rather than using the possessive "our enemy"
Psalm 110 doesn't demonstrate the idiocy of the Trinity Doctrine. It is a song.
Article:
‘The Lord Said to My Lord...’
To Whom Was the Lord Speaking in Psalm 110:1?
As far as I know, the words lord and master aren't common in the U.S. today outside of religious references. During Bible times they were very common outside of religious references.
When looking at the Hebrew, this is probably a more accurate reading of the verse.
The Lord [God] said to my master [King David] Sit thou at my right hand... (Psalm 110:1)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Alter2Ego, posted 10-12-2013 5:58 PM Alter2Ego has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by arachnophilia, posted 10-14-2013 11:01 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 385 of 385 (708818)
10-14-2013 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by purpledawn
10-14-2013 10:46 AM


more like tradition issue.
quote:
The LORD said unto my Lord
these are two different words in hebrew; one is the proper name of god, and one is a word that means "my lord", adonay. the problem is that a jewish person reading the text aloud would say "adonay" in both cases, and translations have chosen to reflect this tradition.
adon and adonay are used all the time to refer to human beings, though. it's just the tradition that makes us think anytime we hear "my lord" that means "god".
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by purpledawn, posted 10-14-2013 10:46 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
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