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Author | Topic: Has evolution been proven ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.7 |
In reply to my own post, I have come up with a way to prove which of the two is the truth. Ok, here's the plan, we all just believe what we want, live our lives, and die. If evolution is correct, nobody will know b/c we'll be dead and no longer exist. However, if Creationism is true, then everyone will know b/c we'll be face to face with the Creator and He'll be asking us why we should be allowed into Heaven. This is false. Evolution does not imply the absence of any afterlife, nor does it imply the absence of god, or a creator. You know. I think I've posted that exact same sentiment in about a quarter of my posts here...
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 477 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
quote: Refer to this thread for my explanation to why the bible is not an accurate source of communication with God. Prayer is a one way communication from me to God, IFF there is a God. Circumstances can be explained by coincidences, cause and effect, and plane chance.
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5033 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
Actually, I find quoting from the BIBLE to be more "logical"(in debate) than attempting to find out how economic interests prevent (even involuntarily)good will from having its magnitude.
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 477 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
quote: Huh?
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5033 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
There was the "problem" of SoulFire's little &. That certainly works in debate where you linked
quote:for if the "circularity" comes from man and not GOD then back to Soul Fire. I dont bite. If you want that again let me know.
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SoulFire Inactive Member |
Ok, after changing my signature for the third time, I have decided to go with a statement not dealing directly with scientific facts, so here it is:
"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis
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SoulFire Inactive Member |
There was the "problem" of SoulFire's little &. That certainly works in debate where you linked
... for if the "circularity" comes from man and not GOD then back to Soul Fire. Ummm... I don't quite know what your getting at... no offense but your sentences seem a little incomplete. What's "SoulFire's little &."? Back to me for what? "The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 477 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
quote: I still don't understand what you mean. In high school, I had to beat my head with a hammer all year long to get a decent grade in creative writing. I can't read between the lines. Please clarify.
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SoulFire Inactive Member |
This is false. Evolution does not imply the absence of any afterlife...
If this is true, then would you mind explaining to me how evolution could possibly fit in with any afterlife? In order for there to be an afterlife, we must accept the existence of the human soul, something that is able to live and survive without requiring anything else that all forms of life need, something that affects our thoughts, choises, and emotions. Something like this could not possibly be made of simple matter or energy could it? Please also read my signature. ...nor does it imply the absence of god, or a creator. I think the kind of god or creator you are refering to here is a mechanical god, that created the earth and then left it on it's own. This is completely contradictory to the entire Bible, which is absolutely filled with examples of God persuing personal, loving relationships with individuals such as Abram, Joseph, David, Solomon, Sampson, and many many more. Please read below where, in reply to Lam's statements against the Bible, I have given some more details and a helpful link. "The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis
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SoulFire Inactive Member |
I don't exactly remember the order of translation, but here is how it roughly look: Ancient Hebrew --> Ancient Greek --> Greek --> Hebrew --> Latin --> everything else. The NT went through something similar: Ancient Greek ---> Greek ---> Latin ---> King James ----> everything else.
First of all, the original Bible was not just written in two languages. As a whole, the bible was written:-by over 40 authors -in 3 languages -on 3 continents -over a span of 1,500 years, -and covers hundreds of controversial subjects Though despite all of this, the authors all spoke with agreement; there are no contradictions. From Genesis to Revelation, there is one unfolding story--God's redemption of mankind. I could go into more detail here, but I find this link (where I got the precceding information) to be much more capable of explaining this than I am. "The Astonishing Hypothesis is that you -- your joys and your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells and their associated molecules" -Francis Crick in The Astonishing Hypothesis
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1504 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Evolution is a scientific theory based on evidence. How could the theory of evolution hope to disprove the soul or an afterlife for that matter? ToE is simply science.
I personally do not believe in the soul or an after life as described by the Christian bible. Not because I am a evolution proponant. But because I can not see how your soul once you die could maintain it's separateness, The thing that makes up the Self when you die if there is a Self goes to heaven or hell? And based on your behavior on Earth you are judged by God? And though all this your soul waits for this decision like a trial? That must be believed based on faith. ToE is far removed from the metaphysical . Your own first paragraph sums it up pretty good. Feel free to believe in evolution because the soul and the afterlife concept is based on faith not science. IMO
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I still don't understand what you mean. I think Brad hates it when I tell people this, but nobody does. Well, that's not entirely true. Some posters apparently find great lucidity in his writing. I am not one of them. Most people here don't seem to be. Sorry, Brad, but I felt it was important that Lam not feel like he was the only one.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If this is true, then would you mind explaining to me how evolution could possibly fit in with any afterlife? There's a computer scientist whose name escapes me who predicts that, given enough time, computing power will escalate to the point where it would be possible to exactly model the history of the Earth, including the conciousness of all humans who had ever lived, and reconstruct their identities inside of a massive computer simulation. At that point, they need never die or suffer because the simulation would be programmed to be the ultimate human paradise. Whatever that is. Fanciful in the extreme but I bring it up to demonstrate that views of the afterlife need not require anything so tenuous as the soul. If you're really interested in non-supernatural ideas about the afterlife I reccommend the fiction of Iain M. Banks. Anyway perhaps conciousness creates souls. Who knows? But it's hardly the case that evolution = no souls or afterlife. Given that those things aren't accessable to scientific inquiry by definition, it would be overstepping the bounds of science to use evolution, or any other theory, to try to disprove them. (Though certainly there isn't any evidence that they do exist.)
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Primordial Egg Inactive Member |
crashfrog writes: There's a computer scientist whose name escapes me who predicts that, given enough time, computing power will escalate to the point where it would be possible to exactly model the history of the Earth, including the conciousness of all humans who had ever lived, and reconstruct their identities inside of a massive computer simulation. At that point, they need never die or suffer because the simulation would be programmed to be the ultimate human paradise. Whatever that is. You're thinking of the physicist Frank Tipler, I believe, who wrote a book, The Physics of Immortality : Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead on this topic. Regarded as a bit of a crank iirc. More interestingly still, Nick Bostrom, a philosopher has taken these ideas still further. Given: i) Computing power will increase until it reaches the point where it can simulate worlds which are indistinguishable from the real thing, using vanishingly small computing times;ii) humanity doesn't wipe itself out before then I don't find (i) particularly contentious. If you grant the above assumptions, then in the future there could be several billion simulations of the world running every second which are completely indistinguishable from reality. Corollary 1: the chances are one to several gazillion against that you're not currently part of one of those simulations. You are almost certainly living in a Matrix-type simulation. Corollary 2: Time travel is possible. In the sense that you can simulate it perfectly within a computer. You can find the original paper here: The Simulation Argument And just to prove this post is on topic, I'd just like to point out that the ToE does not rule out any of the above. PE [This message has been edited by Primordial Egg, 04-07-2004] "Probably the toughest time in anyone's life is when you have to murder a loved one because they're the devil." - Emo Philips
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Actually, there are numerous contradictions. For example, in the Matthew, Mark, and Luke crucifiction accounts, the last supper is a Passover meal. In John, however, Jesus is dead before Passover. Which story is true?
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