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Author Topic:   The power of prayer: in action
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 196 of 304 (154061)
10-29-2004 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 7:33 AM


riVeRrat
Statistical evidence that has happened to me since I got saved:
Physical change to my body(or peoples perception of has been warped),
Blessing after blessing after blessing poured out upon my business,
I suddenly find myself in a role of leadership for hundreds of people
The same could pretty much be said for Hitler.Indeed his leadership role exceeded yours.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 7:33 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 10:22 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 197 of 304 (154063)
10-29-2004 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 7:35 AM


riVeRrat
Something happens to me physically when I am filled with the Holy Spirit, like nothing I have ever felt before. I cannot just explain that one away by calling myself crazy, but would you know, I even tried to.
What exactly is this physical effect that you speak of?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 7:35 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 10:28 AM sidelined has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 198 of 304 (154065)
10-29-2004 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 7:35 AM


riveRrat
Tell me how would you explain talking to someone you never meet before, then all of a sudden getting filled with the Holy Spirit, and a bunch of words pop into your head. You tell the person and then they start crying, and acknowledging everything you tell them. there's no way that is a human thing, there's no way I would ever be capable of that. I never did that in 39 years of living, all of a sudden I can tell people thier lives?
This happens when the Spirit wants it to happen, not when I want it too. when you meet people, sometimes when you start to know them better, you will ask them questions like, what drives you in life, or question peoples motives
For 39 years you never asked questions of people in this way? Now you do ,they answer you honestly because you actually pay attention to them and the worries and questions that they have {which are similar to your own}and you are amazed that you can understand that you have common ground with them? How is this miraculous and not merely you finally finding the courage to ask penetrating questions about people.I have done this quite often and yes people sometimes have said as much to me about this but it is certainly not because of something other than people needing someone to listen.
We do not gain leadership so much as people give it to us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 7:35 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Coragyps, posted 10-29-2004 9:24 AM sidelined has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 199 of 304 (154069)
10-29-2004 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by sidelined
10-29-2004 8:50 AM


We do not gain leadership so much as people give it to us.
Damn, Sidelined! I never figured that out quite that clearly before! Thanks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by sidelined, posted 10-29-2004 8:50 AM sidelined has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 200 of 304 (154070)
10-29-2004 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:17 PM


quote:
To me this is YOUR own inner self imagining that I am a nut case,
Look, I'm not the one who hears voices inside his head telling him to do things.
quote:
and you think that what you really feel in your heart about dying is a lie.
Maybe it is.
No way to know, is there?
quote:
When does it end, and who is right?
That's my point. Nobody knows. Nobody.
Anybody who is sure is fooling themselves.
quote:
Thats right everyones a nut, except you.
Everyone who hears voices inside their head that tells them to do things is most likely a nut, yes.
Or self-deluded.
quote:
We are all scared little pip-squeaks, terrified of dying.
Aren't you doing everything you can to get into heaven? Aren't you even a little bit scared of going to hell?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:17 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 11:09 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 201 of 304 (154071)
10-29-2004 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:20 PM


quote:
I also feel like God watched over me when I was ignorant of him.
So why didn't he watch over and help others who were killed or maimed?
It's looking more and more as though your God is pretty indistinguishable from random chance.
That's what the statistics have always shown, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:20 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 11:25 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 202 of 304 (154073)
10-29-2004 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:22 PM


Rirverrat, will you please cut n paste the portions of the messages you are responding to into your responses? It is annoying to have to go back and forth to and from the old message to read what you have just responded to.
quote:
The comment was more or less to point out, that it is not what the people want but what the evil leaders want.
Do you think that all of the males in patriarchical theocracies don't want to keep all of the power and privilage that comes with being male?
The US wasn't even a theocracy but women's rights sufferagettes were spit on, jailed, vilified in the press, had lit cigars thrown on them, and generaly reviled by the men who didn't want to give up any power.
quote:
I was talking about today, and its true.
I am talking about today as well as the past. The Southern Baptists and Mormons treat women as second class citizens.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:22 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Phat, posted 10-29-2004 11:03 AM nator has replied
 Message 227 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 11:17 AM nator has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 203 of 304 (154074)
10-29-2004 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by riVeRraT
10-28-2004 11:24 PM


So, do you agree that humans can and do lie to themselves all the time?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by riVeRraT, posted 10-28-2004 11:24 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 10:05 AM nator has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 204 of 304 (154075)
10-29-2004 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Legend
10-29-2004 8:23 AM


Ok, I understand statistics better the Charles would have you believe. From a scientific stand point I try to wiegh out all the variables and come up with another explanation for the evidence.
I have decided to open myself up to this forum, and everything I tell you is completely honest, and from the heart. It was before, but now I hold no barriers between you and what is in my mind. I have nothing to fear with the Lord on my side.
Wouldn't that have happened anyway? how do you know it's because you were saved ? Are the people who compliment you on this (presumably), of the same faith as you ?
That would be kind of silly to assume, because I did not go to church before I got saved (not including a dozen visits in ten years, to other churches, in search of the truth). The kind of people are:
My Father,
Mother,
Friends,
Wife,
nieghbors,
customers.
I would say at least 30 people have told me this. They are people who haven't seen me in a while, and people who see me every day.
did bad things happen to your business as well ? Have the blessings changed in frequency, or magnitude, since before you were saved ?
No, as matter of fact the bad things have decreased dramatically. I explained about my mechanical curse that used to happen to me every year for the last 15 years. Didn't happen this year. I always seem to have the right part, or know the right thing to say to customers.
BTW, I always tell them the truth, even before I got saved.
Is that necessarily a good thing ? was your being saved a pre-requisite for this role? (i.e. is that role in your religious community?)
Yes it is in a religious community, and outside as well too.
But the many churches that I have visited, and tried to be a part of (the music) I wasn't accepted until I got saved. It wasn't like I announced when I got saved either.
As a matter of fact, I went to 4 churches and tried to play in "the band" but they were never interested (they would almost refuse me as I asked). When I came to my current church, I didn't even want to ask, because they were too good, and I didn't want to be let down again. But I did ask the worship team leader where I could get the music sheets of the music they were playing, he asked me why, I told him I play piano, then he asked me to join on the spot. Coincidence?
But a church that didn't know me from a hole in the wall now has me as their worship leader. I have a small ministry, and Vice President of a charity org. In 8 months time. Hardly things things that I could accomplish without the help of God.
Why didn't this happen in any of the other churches I attended? Because of the people you think? Or maybe the people filled with God.
I understand it is slightly subjective, but it is a 5-1 odd.
Please note, I am not bragging here. I just sharing what God can and will do in your lives as well. I am also publicly thanking him for the opportunity to server him and my fellow man.
Something happens to me physically when I eat chocolate, listen to good music, or watch Cameron Diaz films . I just don't attribute it to the Holy Spirit. Could it be that each time you feel happy and elated you think it's the Holy Spirit that caused it, rather than the other way round ?
Because I never felt anything like it before. Its not like I'm thinking of something first all the time either, it can just come to me when I least expect it, and fill me with anyone of the gifts he has blessed me with. If I was capable of doing that to myself in my own mind, I think I would drop dead from shock on the spot. If it is true, then too many crazy people are on the streets, including myself. I have some wierd kind of desease that makes me want to Love people and forgive them, and help them. Then imaginary words pop in my head, that are never wrong.
You know, if you think there is truth in that or if it was true, then Jesus was the biggest con-artist in the world. He designed the most perfect scheme to get people to be crazy for 2000 years.
I think what he taught was perfect, its just that man doesn't know how to be like him. Man is so evil that he would even go as far to use what Jesus taught and the power of leadership that is granted to him, to hurt others. He then sets an example to people like yourself, that deters you from the one who Loves you most. Pretty sad uh?
I do it all the time. My colleagues call it 'talking bulls**t', I prefer to call it 'inspiration'. Why does the Holy Spirit have to come into it ?
Right, I never have been inspired in my 39 years of life, so I don't know what that is.
Could it be that the persons you're talking to want to hear what you're telling them? Could it also be that they are stressed, vulnerable and prone to emotional responses ?
Also, do you realize that many people from different religious persuasions can produce the same effect ? Are you all guided by the same Spirit ? How do you know that the 'right' Spirit is guiding you and not the others ?
Yes I realize that. That is why it is subjective. But I couldn't do it before. As far as other religions go, I have learned a lot about it, and I feel as though we are all worshiping the same God. Musslims believe in Jesus as a prophet, so they know him. No-one can go to heaven unless they go through him, but what does that mean exactly?
John 3:16 says:
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[1] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
It doesn't say whoever doesn't believe in him will go to hell. Jesus taught us its more important what comes out of your heart than anything else. So I can't judge those other religions, and I won't say that they have it wrong or not. I admire their dedication to the Lord. But even in those religions there are bad people, is the religion to blame or the person?
You can start to break things down and try to explain away each one of these things I posted, but you cannot explain away them as a whole.
The pyhsical thing is what gets me the most. I laugh so much when people tell me that.
The only thing I could contribute to me looking younger was that I quit smoking pot. But I only smoked less than once a month. I also used to drink beer, less than a six-pack a week. At those rates, do you think its possible to look ten years younger by quitting? I still drink a couple beers a month.
Also answered prayers, I had qui smoking, but I held on to a little weed, because I thought one day I might want to get high again. I really wasn't sure if it was OK with the Lord. so about 5 months after being saved, I went fishing and brought along a bowl.
There wasn't anything happening for about an hour. I reached in pocket and took out the bowl, was about to light it, and asked God, is this right or wrong? If it is wrong make a big fish jump out of the water. Then I said to God, I'm sorry, that is wrong of me to ask for something so specific. I take it back.
So I put the bowl back in my pocket, and contemplated if I would smoke or not.
10 mins went by, and I decided I was going to smoke it, I reached in my pocket, and the exact second my hand touched the bowl, and big fish jumped out of the water.....I through the bowl as far into the lake as possible, and when it hit the water, another big fish jumped out of the water. I then couaght 2 huge walleyes, kept one for eating. I have a pictue of me holding the fish, I should post it so you can see the joy in eyes.
Have you ever noticed yourself the difference when you look into a Christians eyes? I'm not talking about people who confess to be a Christian, and are really not. But there are certain people you will meet in your life, and they have a certain glow about them. When they tell you they are a Christain, you believe them, and can tell how sincere they really are. You wouldn't dare to mess with that person, because you believe they are good, and shouldn't be messed with.
That is the light shining through.
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 10-29-2004 08:57 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Legend, posted 10-29-2004 8:23 AM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by CK, posted 10-29-2004 10:07 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 225 by Legend, posted 10-29-2004 11:13 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 239 by purpledawn, posted 10-29-2004 1:54 PM riVeRraT has replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 205 of 304 (154076)
10-29-2004 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Gilgamesh
10-29-2004 2:34 AM


quote:
Why the heck is it us atheists never see any of this stuff? I am so glad I live in this world and not the one inside your head.
Let's not forget that Buzsaw believes demons are whispering to him, and Hangdawg believes that demons can posess people.
Didn't I read the other day about a woman in Texas who bashed her two children's skulls in with a rock because God told her to? Oh, and there was another woman in a strict Christian church/cult who starved her infant to death to make her preacher/God happy?
You really never hear about Athiests or Agnostics doing these kinds of things, do you?
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 10-29-2004 09:01 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Gilgamesh, posted 10-29-2004 2:34 AM Gilgamesh has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 10:09 AM nator has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 206 of 304 (154078)
10-29-2004 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by nator
10-29-2004 9:55 AM


No, we all know what is inside our hearts. We can lie to others about who and what we are, but deep inside we know, so does God.
I can't say that I ever lied to myself. I have rationalized things into a state of accepting it as something I cannot change, just to keep my head from blowing up, but the truth remains.
Thats what God is, truth, that is how you come to know him, and know that he is real.
Its like when someone tells you something that you already know. They are telling you the truth, and you reconize this, you feel it. Well multiply that feeling by 1,000, and you start to get what you feel from God when you get saved.
I highly doubt that I have conviced myself into believing the truth is not the truth anymore. Truth is forever, and it sets you free.
That would make me so crazy, I probably wouldn't be able to function in life. Thats the kind of delusional state of mind you are talking about. Everything else in me remains the same, I just know God now, and understand my purpose for living.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by nator, posted 10-29-2004 9:55 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by nator, posted 10-29-2004 10:29 AM riVeRraT has replied

CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 207 of 304 (154080)
10-29-2004 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by riVeRraT
10-29-2004 9:56 AM


quote:
Have you ever noticed yourself the difference when you look into a Christians eyes? I'm not talking about people who confess to be a Christian, and are really not. But there are certain people you will meet in your life, and they have a certain glow about them. When they tell you they are a Christain, you believe them, and can tell how sincere they really are. You wouldn't dare to mess with that person, because you believe they are good, and shouldn't be messed with.
That is the light shining through.
No that's just the baggage you bring to the situation. Maybe you can see this light in the same way you hear the voices.
Oh and if you think 30 people is a good sample size, you actually know less about Stats than I reckoned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 9:56 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by riVeRraT, posted 10-29-2004 10:15 AM CK has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 208 of 304 (154082)
10-29-2004 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by nator
10-29-2004 10:00 AM


Would be kind of silly to hear about an atheist who bashed her kids skull in because God told him to, now wouldn't it?
So your telling me atheist are all non-violent?
They never commit sick acts?
And its because they are atheists?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by nator, posted 10-29-2004 10:00 AM nator has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 209 of 304 (154084)
10-29-2004 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by CK
10-29-2004 10:07 AM


Yea but that 30 people is everyone that could fit into the criteria.
Inother words all that new me before and after have noticed.
I think it is actually more than that.
So if 30 people came up to you, and said "hey Charles your gaianing wieght" you would just ignore them because it is not enough people to fit the criteria of a statistic?
I posted the definition of statistic. It does not say that in needs to be more or less than thirty. That is very illogical of you to assume that number.
If 5 people contracted a strange desease, and one of them had different symptoms than the rest, that would be a statistic, based on the evidence.
Statistics lie, Charles, that is why I am not to fond of them, I think what your telling me, that you too agree that they lie.
Its amazing I even have to argue with you about this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by CK, posted 10-29-2004 10:07 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by CK, posted 10-29-2004 10:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 210 of 304 (154087)
10-29-2004 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by CK
10-29-2004 8:29 AM


All.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by CK, posted 10-29-2004 8:29 AM CK has not replied

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