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Author | Topic: Indonesian Government Sets Deadline - Request for Details | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
I was watching CNN this morning. There was a brief item concerning a decision by the Government of Indonesia (GoI) to "order" all American relief workers and agencies out of Indonesia by March. CNN for once didn't comment on either the decision or its possible ramifications. Unfortunately, they also didn't provide many details beyond the bare announcement.
I'm hoping that one of our Indonesian posters can provide additional details on this decision. I am aware of GoI concerns relative to the on-going Sumatran independence movement/low-level guerrilla insurgency. However, one of the practical aspects of concern was expressed by my wife (who, as a senior foriegn service officer with USAID, has a great deal of experience being involved with and leading international disaster relief and recovery efforts around the world): simply rebuilding basic infrastructure in Banda Aceh, for instance, will take a full-court press using every resource available for at least a year. If the GoI is concerned about foreign meddling in their insurgency, kicking out key players before the relief effort is completed would seem to provide the guerrillas with even more justification and recruits. In addition, the possible political ramifications would appear extraordinary. Even I (and I consider myself relatively multiculturally-oriented and able to understand - even if I don't agree with them - other nations' sovereignty issues, etc), could come up with no more charitable phrase than "ungrateful" or "short-sighted" when considering this decision. To the average American, given the overwhelmingly generous private donations, not to mention government donations, that have been provided both to the region generally and Indonesia in particular, this is going to appear a major slap in the face and insult. I'd appreciate any input bearing on the rationale for this decision on the part of the GoI.
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6873 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
Did they not, until recently, march through their streets shouting 'death to America'?
It seems I read/heard that somewhere. I wonder why we are there to begin with, helping those who want us dead? A strange people we are, eh? Your puzzlement is mine. Perhaps it has to do with their national mindset, which includes 'death to America' sentiments. And then there are the innocent children
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Thanks for your reply.
However, in the first place, this was not a spontaneous outpouring of anti-Americanism by the average Indonesian civilian along the lines of "we'd rather die than accept help from the infidel". It was a sudden decision by the GoI that in my opinion is extraordinarily short-sighted. Secondly, there hasn't typically been a huge amount of ant-Americanism in Indonesia, even in light of the Iraq War. They actually seem to dislike the Australians more than us. Oh, there've been protests, but not anywhere near the scale of many other countries, especially in the Middle East. Indonesia has been a pretty tolerant Moslem nation in that sense. Third, there have been travel restrictions on foreigners on Sumatra for years, again due to the insurgency. IIRC, foreigners need special permission to associate with locals, travel to remote regions, etc, and must be escorted at all times. I'm not sure if this applied to Banda Aceh itself, but it certainly did to the rest of the island. The ostensible reason was to avoid any possibility that foreigners were giving assistance to the insurgents. However, you have nicely proven my point concerning American reaction to this decision.
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Abshalom Inactive Member |
Quetzal: Could the Indonesian reaction have anything to do with the Islamic idea that once a nation or locality becomes Muslim, then in shall always remain Muslim land, and that its occupation, even temporarily, by armed forces of infidels is verboten?
By the way, and I can't remember which news service I viewed it on, there were interviews with locals where individual Indonesians were very reluctant to respond for fear of their government; but those who did said they welcomed U.S. aid and hoped for more tsunami relief from the West.
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6873 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
Oh, they dislike the Aussies more than us.
That is comforting.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Quetzal: Could the Indonesian reaction have anything to do with the Islamic idea that once a nation or locality becomes Muslim, then in shall always remain Muslim land, and that its occupation, even temporarily, by armed forces of infidels is verboten? Possibly, I suppose. However, Indonesian Moslems historically have been relatively friendly and their particular brand of Islam is an especially tolerant one. They tend to reserve (in the main) their dislike for internal, tribal issues and quasi-independence movements. Remember there are approx. 1700 different cultures speaking as many languagues contained in the nation of Indonesia. My speculation is that the government was more concerned with the insurgency (and possibly proselytizing by other religions) than they were with "infidels" per se.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Heh. Still, sometimes it's nice not to be #1 on everybody's hate list, right?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I wonder why we are there to begin with, helping those who want us dead? quote: You don't have to believe that the Bible was written by God to see the sense in that.
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6354 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
This was reported differently over here. The BBC reported that foreign troops will have to leave in three months - nothing about other aid workers (beyond the previous announcement that they had to register travel plans with the government etc.).
Confused ? You will be...
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
That's interesting, CNN made it sound like everybody was ordered out. My wife sits on the management panel for the USG Tsunami Task Force - I'll see what I can weasel out of her tonight (the closed-lipped so-and-so).
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Hey, MT.
I managed to pin down the lady last evening. Apparently the BBC broadcast had it closer than CNN: it was just military forces which were being ordered out. Which makes sense - the GoI no matter how tolerant, is not going to be really comfortable about a US military presence at this time. Interestingly enough, it appears that the GoI has tightened up the existing travel restrictions - all foreign aid workers must be registered, all travel up-country approved, and all movement (say, to deliver supplies) must be escorted by the Indonesian military - which is not a good thing. I haven't heard what the US gov reaction is going to be, but I presume acquiescence.
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Syamsu  Suspended Member (Idle past 5590 days) Posts: 1914 From: amsterdam Joined: |
I think this more has to do with eliminating the possibility of that frightening prospect of... AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT. When a foreigner get's into trouble in Indonesia, it creates AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT. Nothing is so scary to Indonesian politicians as AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT.
So I think this decision just reflects the fragility of Indonesian politics, which can easily be set into turmoil and overwork by AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT. regards,Mohammad Nor Syamsu
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5872 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Thanks Syamasu. I wasn't aware the GoI was that exercised about danger to foreign workers. The decision could make sense in that context, although I think it remains a difficult one to justify considering the needs of the victims. Eliminating the foreign military presence does make sense in the context of avoiding incidents, however.
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6873 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
We are just too wonderful to love.
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PecosGeorge Member (Idle past 6873 days) Posts: 863 From: Texas Joined: |
Does this apply in a political setting? After all, we are not a Christian nation and politics and religion are separate.
Also, if you were to present them with these sentiments, would they understand? I believe their mandate is to kill those who disagree with them and refuse to convert, it would hardly be logical to offer them the opportunity.
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