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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Tension of Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, I think Hyde Park's about right for you, but I suggest you get your facts straight, especially before declaring you "know what's going on." One thing we do know, as well stated by the Washington Post: "When a cake artist opens the doors of his bakery, he commits to serving all customers equally." This is false. He is not required to decorate his cakes with images or messages that are utterly repugnant to him morally. abe: There has been more than one baker, along with a photographer and a florist, forced out of business -- meaning the wedding oriented part of the business. The Oregon bakery had to close its doors to the public. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Ugh what weasel talk. Being forced to make a wedding cake for a gay marriage or have to give up making wedding cakes is government tyranny enough. Make a wedding cake or be ostracized as a "hater" and lose your wedding cake business might not be called "force" in Wonderland I suppose. And Mao would just toss you into prison, so there's that. As for abortions, any sane society should oppose legalized murder of innocents. There cannot be legalized murder, that is simply a stupid assertion Faith. Abortion is not murder, thank God! No one has been forced to bake a wedding cake. But if you do bake wedding cakes then you cannot discriminate and break the law. No one was ostracized as a hater; they were shown to be law breakers.
Faith writes: Right, it's not that the law punishes Christians for being Christians, it's that we imagine it, so if we just ignore it we can pretend it doesn't happen. In the United States of America no one has been punished for being a Christian. Once again reality shows you are simply wrong.
Faith writes: Jesus NEVER treats God's Law like this. He said the Law is Holy and that every jot and tittle of it will be fulfilled. What you are calling "common courtesy" may be included in God's Law but since you don't quote and make everything up to suit yourself I have no idea what you are talking about. Your selective memory has arisen once again. We have discussed this in detain many times. One great example we have discussed in the past is from 2 Kings 5 involving going with his master into the Temple of Rimmon and bowing down to Rimmon. Yet another is Jesus tell folk that if their ass is in a crack on the Sabbath don't wait until the next day to pull it out. This is a common pattern from you Faith; to selectively forget all the instances where what you assert are shown to be incorrect.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You are comparing God's judgments and punishments with the murder of innocents. Weird how that kind of conflation has become so common in this day of burgeoning paganism.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Right, just flatly deny what has been proved beyond a doubt. Very effective tactic where you are surrounded by confederates who won't call you on even the most egregious lies and stupidities..
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Right, just flatly deny what has been proved beyond a doubt. Very effective tactic where you are surrounded by confederates who won't call you on even the most egregious lies and stupidities.. And yet another vague, unsupported assertion from you it seems. Please provide the link to where I denied something that has been "proved beyond a doubt."
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Burgeoning empathy. With all the images we see of starving brown babies, we're learning to set aside our instinctive prejudices. One murdered innocent looks much like another murdered innocent.
You are comparing God's judgments and punishments with the murder of innocents. Weird how that kind of conflation has become so common in this day of burgeoning paganism.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Faith writes: I've already answered this utterly evil post. Empty, barren and untruthful replies like this is why you're so deserving of calumny and opprobrium. This was your response (for one could certainly never call it an answer) in your Message 1261:
"It's amazing how you manage not to understand anything at all on this thread." You say nothing, explain nothing, answer nothing. In fact, nothing and emptiness best characterize your contributions thus far. Have you a wish to answer my Message 1258, it still resides where it always has, responded to (twice!) but unanswered. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Faith writes: No, I think Hyde Park's about right for you, but I suggest you get your facts straight, especially before declaring you "know what's going on." One thing we do know, as well stated by the Washington Post: "When a cake artist opens the doors of his bakery, he commits to serving all customers equally."
This is false. He is not required to decorate his cakes with images or messages that are utterly repugnant to him morally. You, again, need to check your facts, dear lady. The courts would probably agree with you that "He is not required to decorate his cakes with images or messages that are utterly repugnant to him morally." But the betrothed couple merely told the baker that they wished to purchase one of his custom wedding cakes, at which point he refused them. They left immediately. Nothing was said about images or messages.
abe: There has been more than one baker, along with a photographer and a florist, forced out of business -- meaning the wedding oriented part of the business. The Oregon bakery had to close its doors to the public. Given your demonstrated accuracy thus far, or more precisely the profound lack thereof, and especially recently, the only comment I can make about the above unsubstantiated and (because you provide no details, as is your frequent habit) unverifiable claims is that they may or may not be true. With you one never knows, you frequently just say whatever pops into your head to support your position, truth be damned. Your "end justify the means" approach would make Machiavelli proud. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You, again, need to check your facts, dear lady. The courts would probably agree with you that "He is not required to decorate his cakes with images or messages that are utterly repugnant to him morally." But the betrothed couple merely told the baker that they wished to purchase one of his custom wedding cakes, at which point he refused them. They left immediately. Nothing was said about images or messages. Why don't you respond in the spirit of my meaning instead of invoking your nitpicking distinctions? Because you aren't interested in truth or fairness, you're out for blood in the service of your project to be sure I'm deprived of any respect for my point of view, the point of view that in fact established the very principle of civil rights you think you are defending, but you twist it so that evil is good and good is evil. A wedding cake itself is enough of an image to be a symbol of a wedding, and a wedding between homosexuals is morally repugnant to the teachings of Christianity. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The points in that post were answered already. Go find the answers yourself. And NOBODY deserves the calumny and opprobrium you dish out. Justifying it just makes you all the more disgusting.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Because you aren't interested in truth or fairness, you're out for blood in the service of your project to be sure I'm deprived of any respect for my point of view, the point of view that in fact established the very principle of civil rights you think you are defending, but you twist it so that evil is good and good is evil. Reality Faith shows that civil rights were the result of the Enlightenment movement not Christianity or any other religion.
Faith writes: A wedding cake itself is enough of an image to be a symbol of a wedding, and a wedding between homosexuals is morally repugnant to the teachings of Christianity. Again, reality shows you are once again misrepresenting the truth. First, marriage is a civil contract and not something religious by nature. Second, not all Chapters of Club Christian consider a wedding between homosexuals as morally repugnant. Third, a wedding cake is simply a cake just like a birthday cake is just a cake. Fourth, finding a task repugnant is not a justification from breaking a law. Fifth, no one is being forced to marry another of the same sex or approve of a same sex marriage or have a same sex marriage performed in their Chapter of Club Christian. Sorry Faith but those are reality.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Reality Faith shows that civil rights were the result of the Enlightenment movement not Christianity or any other religion. The Enlightenment couldn't have thought it up without Christianity. John Locke was mentored by John Owen, who was a powerful Puritan preacher and Oxford Professor. And the idea of twisting marriage to apply to homosexuals is an absurd travesty that no Enlightenment leader would have countenanced. God specifically ordained marriage as reported in Genesis, and Jesus referred to that ordination as binding. God made them male and female...A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife... what God has brought together let no man put asunder. Christians who don't understand that gay marriage violates God's Law are just supremely ignorant of the Bible. You have your definitions, they are not biblical but mine are and I share them with other biblical Christians. Your definitions are not Christian, they are basically pagan, which is where this whole travesty of gay marriage comes from. And your silly refrain about being forced to marry a homosexual is so absurd I don't know how even you manage to keep it up. Forced to acknowledge the legitimacy of gay marriage is the problem for a Christian and there are many ways that IS forced on us when the law penalizes us for refusing to supply wedding accommodations, wedding cake, flowers, photos, wedding license. Stop the silliness, jar, it's become ludicrous. For us it is very much like being required to worship Caesar as "god" or else. Same situation exactly. There was no need to overturn this basic Christian tenet if what homosexuals want is a legal contract they can depend on. That could have been done without destroying the God-ordained basis of marriage. abe: This has been argued to death already many times, but as long as the fundamental Christian dilemma is ignored I'm going to continue to argue it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Reality still says you are wrong.
In the US (you do live in the US?) marriage is a CIVIL contract just as it was for the Jews like Jesus. Marriage in the US is a civil contract. Marriage in the US is a civil contract. Faith, that is the fact and reality.
Faith writes: God made them male and female No Faith, God made them male and female and both male and female and changing from male to female and at time male and other times female ... That is simply yet another example of where the Bible stories are factually wrong. The problem is that fundamental Christians are simply wrong and not honest about reality.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Christians must answer to God above all governments, and if it weren't for the perversity of our government's forcing gay marriage on us there wouldn't have been any conflict.
Reality has had its teeth in your butt for a long time without you noticing. Guess it's numb to reality.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Christians must answer to God above all governments, and if it weren't for the perversity of our government's forcing gay marriage on us there wouldn't have been any conflict. Again Faith, that is NOT what Jesus taught. Gay marriage has never been forced on anyone in the US and making that claim is simply another misrepresentation of fact, truth and reality.
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