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Author Topic:   Chicken grows teeth
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 1 of 10 (289732)
02-23-2006 9:41 AM


We're Sorry - Scientific American
This article describes how researchers using chicken embryos accidentaly discovered (in a mutant embryo that didn't hatch) small teeth similar to those of an aligator. The teeth are homologus to baby aligator teeth.
This mutation is due to an 80-million year old reptile gene (found in living reptiles as well). The question is, why would a chicken have this gene?
How could this be possible from a creationist perspective?
I would imagine chickens are part of the bird 'kind', so why does it have the genes for teeth of the reptile 'kind'?
This message has been edited by Yaro, 02-23-2006 01:33 PM

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 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 02-23-2006 4:08 PM Yaro has not replied
 Message 8 by Wounded King, posted 02-23-2006 4:19 PM Yaro has replied

  
AdminWounded
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (289740)
02-23-2006 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
02-23-2006 9:41 AM


Could you give some indication of where your quote came from?
I would prefer it if you radically reduced the size of your quote and described the findings more in your own words.
TTFN,
AW

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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 3 of 10 (289779)
02-23-2006 11:52 AM


I edited the first message.

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AdminWounded
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 10 (289802)
02-23-2006 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Yaro
02-23-2006 11:52 AM


Thanks for that. Could you re-edit it so it looks more like a new OP rather than part of an ongoing discussion, then it should be good to go.
TTFN,
AW

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Yaro, posted 02-23-2006 11:52 AM Yaro has replied

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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 5 of 10 (289825)
02-23-2006 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminWounded
02-23-2006 12:44 PM


done

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AdminWounded
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 10 (289843)
02-23-2006 3:43 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 10 (289847)
02-23-2006 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
02-23-2006 9:41 AM


This mutation is due to an 80-million year old reptile gene (found in living reptiles as well). The question is, why would a chicken have this gene?
chickens are full of reptile genes. the scales on the bottoms and sides of their feet (not the scutes on the top) are reptilian scales. it's not suprising at all that chickens have genes for reptilian teeth, that has been turned off. bakker made a comment years ago that if we wanted to make a real jurassic park, it'd be better to take a modern bird embryo and switch on the reptile charateristics like teeth and tails.


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Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 8 of 10 (289852)
02-23-2006 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
02-23-2006 9:41 AM


The actual Talpid2 mutant is unlikely to be in any unexpressed 'reptile' gene. The Talpid mutantis though to be important in Sonic hedgehog signalling which is one of the major developmental signalling pathways which affects a large number of developing structures.
It is certainly interesting that the chick mesenchyme still shows the ability to develop teeth transiently in the Talpid2 mutant, but it doesn't neccessarily ned any cryptic normally unexpressed 'reptile' gene, it does however suggest that there have been some conserved elements which have persisted which might have been expected to have been lost due to lack of use.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 1 by Yaro, posted 02-23-2006 9:41 AM Yaro has replied

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Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 9 of 10 (289853)
02-23-2006 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Wounded King
02-23-2006 4:19 PM


I bow before you WK... It must be cool to know all this stuff as intimately as you do.

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DBlevins
Member (Idle past 3775 days)
Posts: 652
From: Puyallup, WA.
Joined: 02-04-2003


Message 10 of 10 (289865)
02-23-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Yaro
02-23-2006 4:29 PM


The Article in this weeks Current Biology
Link to the Current Biology Summary. You can access the full pdf from here but you might need to be registered.
Also Science had this to say about the Talpid2 gene.
In normal chicks, shh was expressed in a region analogous to the sides of the gums, but in alligators and talpid2 mutants, shh appeared in the center of the gums. The mutant version of talpid2 thus appears to turn shh on in the right place for growing teeth. Over time, changes in the gene may have disrupted this ability, resulting in tooth loss, the researchers report 21 February in Current Biology.
Here's the link to the Science
article.
This message has been edited by DBlevins, 02-23-2006 05:51 PM

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