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Author Topic:   Jesus and his sacrifice is Satan’s test of man’s morality.
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 316 of 478 (776084)
01-08-2016 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by Faith
01-08-2016 11:51 AM


Re: eye for eye
Faith writes:
Eye for an eye was intended as the standard of perfect justice, as I keep saying....
Yes, you keep saying that and I keep demonstrating that the bible disagrees with you. Here it is again:
quote:
Exodus 21:26-27 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
If you take your servant's eye, you give him the other one - i.e. you give him his freedom - as compensation. You don't take the malefactor's eye, you give one to the victim. Your own quote agrees with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 11:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 7:26 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 317 of 478 (776085)
01-08-2016 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Bliyaal
01-08-2016 7:57 AM


Re: misrepresentation
I have empathy for those under God's judgment
In your theology, aren't we all under god's judgment? You seem to make a distinction to justify the killing of babies.
I'm making no distinctions whatever. God's law is God's law to me, I don't tell Him what to do. You and the others here are doing that. You're singling out the killing of babies from all God's other judgments. I have sympathy for anyone under God's judgments for any reason. That's what I said, that's what I meant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Bliyaal, posted 01-08-2016 7:57 AM Bliyaal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by Bliyaal, posted 01-08-2016 1:32 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 318 of 478 (776086)
01-08-2016 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Omnivorous
01-07-2016 7:53 PM


Re: YYes Re: misrepresentation
Every doctrine of inerrancy leads to the same chamber of horrors no matter where you start, Kansas evangelical or Afghan Taliban. Those were the days, justice was hard and clean; us and them were clear, there was blood without quibble. Now all humanity is degenerate drek, especially Afghanistan from Kansas, and vice versa.
Oh fer....
Why do you keep imposing the OT on the NT? Clearly the OT is history, there are no injunctions anywhere there or in the NT to enact the kinds of justice you are all making a cause for having fits of moral indignation. We've been living under the NT for centuries now, though you are still tearing your hair out over ancient history as if it were today. Equating ancient history with today's Muslim beheadings must give you all some spurious sense of equality that makes you feel better about having been born in a superior culture, but the equation is bogus. The feverish blood-and-guts thinking here is all on your side.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Omnivorous, posted 01-07-2016 7:53 PM Omnivorous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by kbertsche, posted 01-11-2016 12:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 319 of 478 (776087)
01-08-2016 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by Faith
01-08-2016 11:44 AM


Re: YYes Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
Funny the question why God didn't do it Himself was brought up on one of the Bible discussions I was just reading recently but I was looking for something else and now don't remember where I saw it.I think the answer was something along the lines of God's using His people as His instrument. In the days of Sodom He didn't yet have a "people." God's people were to be like His right arm.
But that doesn't answer the question. With your method of understanding the Bible it is clear that Yahweh was perfectly capable of annihilating a community all on His own. So now that He has a chosen people why would He see many of them killed and mentally damaged. Why wouldn't He spare His people that anguish when He could do the job more effectively Himself.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 11:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 6:37 PM GDR has replied

  
Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 320 of 478 (776090)
01-08-2016 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Faith
01-08-2016 12:11 PM


Re: misrepresentation
I have sympathy for anyone under God's judgments for any reason. That's what I said, that's what I meant.
What about answering my question instead of evading it?
Also, I would like an answer to my other question : What did the babies do that was so horrific Faith?
Edited by Bliyaal, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 12:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by NoNukes, posted 01-08-2016 3:20 PM Bliyaal has not replied
 Message 323 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 6:41 PM Bliyaal has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 321 of 478 (776093)
01-08-2016 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 320 by Bliyaal
01-08-2016 1:32 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Also, I would like an answer to my other question : What did the babies do that was so horrific Faith?
Back in the day wives and children were chattel. Their guilt or innocence was of no material value. It was the guilt or innocence of the men that determined the fate of cattle and family.
On that basis we can see that the authors of scripture are attributing their own values to God.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by Bliyaal, posted 01-08-2016 1:32 PM Bliyaal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 6:44 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 322 of 478 (776110)
01-08-2016 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by GDR
01-08-2016 12:48 PM


Re: YYes Re: misrepresentation
My answer to your question why God would use His people rather than do it Himself is that I don't know beyond His choosing a people for that among other purposes. You are of course only interested in calling God's actions into question. There are many ways of doing that I'm sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by GDR, posted 01-08-2016 12:48 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by GDR, posted 01-08-2016 8:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 323 of 478 (776111)
01-08-2016 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 320 by Bliyaal
01-08-2016 1:32 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Don't know what question I'm supposedly "evading" but your accusation makes me less than interested in finding out.
As for "what the babies did" to deserve punishment, there is a concept of corporate guilt involved which means many of the tribe may not have "done" anything in particular to deserve the punishment. And I'll mention again that if you kill all the mothers and not the babies you might as well have killed them anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by Bliyaal, posted 01-08-2016 1:32 PM Bliyaal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Tangle, posted 01-09-2016 4:26 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 324 of 478 (776112)
01-08-2016 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by NoNukes
01-08-2016 3:20 PM


Re: misrepresentation
On that basis we can see that the authors of scripture are attributing their own values to God.
Scripture is God-breathed and not written by human opinion. And on THIS basis we can see that YOU are imposing YOUR own values on God and the writers of scripture.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by NoNukes, posted 01-08-2016 3:20 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by jar, posted 01-08-2016 9:21 PM Faith has replied
 Message 337 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2016 12:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 325 of 478 (776115)
01-08-2016 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by ringo
01-08-2016 12:03 PM


Re: eye for eye
Compensation is one of the ways the principle of an eye for an eye can be applied. It is not the only way. And compensation can be regarded as penal too.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by ringo, posted 01-08-2016 12:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by ringo, posted 01-09-2016 10:40 AM Faith has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 326 of 478 (776117)
01-08-2016 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Faith
01-08-2016 6:37 PM


Re: YYes Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
You are of course only interested in calling God's actions into question.
Look Faith. My whole life and world view is based on my Christian faith as a follower of Jesus Christ. You seem to be interested in following a specific understanding of the Bible that is inconsistent with being a follower of Christ.
I am not questioning God, I am simply seeking as good an understanding as I can of truth, even if it is ultimately by faith. My faith tells me that the slaughter of children by the ones that God has called to spread the knowledge of His love for the world is relabelling evil as good.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 6:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 10:14 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 327 of 478 (776118)
01-08-2016 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Faith
01-08-2016 6:44 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
Scripture is God-breathed and not written by human opinion. And on THIS basis we can see that YOU are imposing YOUR own values on God and the writers of scripture.
You keep making that claim Faith but once again, the Bible itself shows that if that were true then God constantly makes mistakes, is wrong, is evil, is uncertain and unthinking.
If the Bible was God Breathed then you would think at the least She would have provided a list of which books should be included and not the many different Canons that exist that include as few as five books (and exclude all of the New Testament) and as many as over eighty books.
If the Bible was God Breathed then it would not be filled with factual errors, falsehoods and contradictions.
But the fact is that the Bible stories are filled with factual errors, falsehoods and contradictions.
You can of course simply continue to deny facts and reality but that does not change either the facts or reality.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 6:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 10:18 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 328 of 478 (776121)
01-08-2016 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by GDR
01-08-2016 8:40 PM


Re: YYes Re: misrepresentation
Look Faith. My whole life and world view is based on my Christian faith as a follower of Jesus Christ.
Your insistence on my answering the question about why God used His people rather than doing it Himself suggests to me that you are only trying to find an excuse to blame God for something, and blame me as well, because I can't see any purpose in your question and already gave the only answer I have at the moment.
You seem to be interested in following a specific understanding of the Bible that is inconsistent with being a follower of Christ.
My faith is in Christ, a typical orthodox faith which I share with millions of others. It's no "specific understanding" of the Bible, it's the understanding of the Reformers for starters. Your beliefs and your Christ are the false ones.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by GDR, posted 01-08-2016 8:40 PM GDR has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 329 of 478 (776122)
01-08-2016 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by jar
01-08-2016 9:21 PM


Re: misrepresentation
My commitment is to the God of the Bible He inspired. All your accusations are only going to come back to hurt you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by jar, posted 01-08-2016 9:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by jar, posted 01-08-2016 10:37 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 330 of 478 (776123)
01-08-2016 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Faith
01-08-2016 10:18 PM


Re: misrepresentation
Faith writes:
My commitment is to the God of the Bible He inspired.
Which God of the Bible is that; the one in Genesis 1 or the one in Genesis 2&3 or one of the other Gods described in the Bible.
And which Bible is it that She inspired, the one with only five books and no New Testament or the one with over eighty books or one of the other mutually exclusive Bibles?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Faith, posted 01-08-2016 10:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by Faith, posted 01-09-2016 12:04 PM jar has replied

  
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