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Author Topic:   Problems with evolution? Submit your questions.
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 391 of 752 (582003)
09-18-2010 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by dennis780
09-18-2010 1:54 PM


Re: Genetic Information
This is up for debate.
Not really unless you have evidence beyond the tired and absurd "It's complex therefore it was designed". If you do I'd love to have this debate.
You personally BELIEVE that God had nothing to do with it.
I personally don't see why a god of some kind had to have anything to do with it. Very big difference. I'm sure many on here hold this position.
So I suppose if I threw a rock off a mountain, then hiked down, there would be a brand new Ford F-350 waiting for me at the bottom,
If this happened I assure you I would rethink the super natural and god belief. This is not possible and this compared with observed natural processes is laughable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by dennis780, posted 09-18-2010 1:54 PM dennis780 has not replied

IchiBan
Member (Idle past 4937 days)
Posts: 88
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 392 of 752 (582132)
09-19-2010 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by Coyote
09-18-2010 1:53 PM


No one knows when the flood was. including the Biblical scholars whom you like to quote. So your insistence of selecting a date is only a red herring so you can go trot out & say that you found no evidence of a flood at that time.
Also it is easy to notice that you try to place people in a double bind by the way you present your replies when there could other answers. Why is it easy to notice? because you do that in almost every answer you give.
It is obvious that you have an agenda and you are obsessed with certain topics. And since scientists and researchers have been known to cook their data and salt the sites, I find your conclusions in those areas suspect and unconvincing.
By the way the topic of this thread is or was 'problems with evolution' not anything to do with the flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by Coyote, posted 09-18-2010 1:53 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Coyote, posted 09-20-2010 5:46 AM IchiBan has not replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 393 of 752 (582166)
09-20-2010 5:46 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by IchiBan
09-19-2010 11:59 PM


The flood myth
No one knows when the flood was. including the Biblical scholars whom you like to quote. So your insistence of selecting a date is only a red herring so you can go trot out & say that you found no evidence of a flood at that time.
That's pretty convenient, having the largest historical event of all time being free-floating in time. Then you can always say, "Well, you looked in the wrong place." This silly flood has been placed anywhere from 4,000 years ago to 550 million years ago and beyond.
Sorry, that's the way myths work, not scientifically verifiable events.
The date of about 4,350 years ago is the one selected by biblical scholars. If you don't like that date, come up with a better one.
Also it is easy to notice that you try to place people in a double bind by the way you present your replies when there could other answers. Why is it easy to notice? because you do that in almost every answer you give.
Without examples this doesn't make any sense.
It is obvious that you have an agenda and you are obsessed with certain topics. And since scientists and researchers have been known to cook their data and salt the sites, I find your conclusions in those areas suspect and unconvincing.
I am an archaeologist and I regularly deal with soils that are 4,350 years old. I find the lack of flood evidence telling. Don't you?
By the way the topic of this thread is or was 'problems with evolution' not anything to do with the flood.
This is in Free For All. The normal rules don't apply.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by IchiBan, posted 09-19-2010 11:59 PM IchiBan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by barbara, posted 09-26-2010 10:11 AM Coyote has replied

barbara
Member (Idle past 4802 days)
Posts: 167
Joined: 07-19-2010


Message 394 of 752 (583321)
09-26-2010 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 393 by Coyote
09-20-2010 5:46 AM


Re: The flood myth
I am not disagreeing about the flood myth but I do wonder why pieces of seashells can be found everywhere on the planet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by Coyote, posted 09-20-2010 5:46 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by Coyote, posted 09-26-2010 10:28 AM barbara has not replied
 Message 396 by ringo, posted 09-26-2010 2:31 PM barbara has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 395 of 752 (583325)
09-26-2010 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by barbara
09-26-2010 10:11 AM


Re: The flood myth
I am not disagreeing about the flood myth but I do wonder why pieces of seashells can be found everywhere on the planet.
That is due to uplifting. It is a phenomenon that is well understood.
The claim that these sea shells are related to a global flood has been refuted so often that it has been given a number:
Claim CC364

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by barbara, posted 09-26-2010 10:11 AM barbara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by dennis780, posted 10-20-2010 4:30 AM Coyote has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 396 of 752 (583360)
09-26-2010 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by barbara
09-26-2010 10:11 AM


Re: The flood myth
barbara writes:
I am not disagreeing about the flood myth but I do wonder why pieces of seashells can be found everywhere on the planet.
It's easier to lift a mountain slowly than to drown it quickly.

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by barbara, posted 09-26-2010 10:11 AM barbara has not replied

dennis780
Member (Idle past 4776 days)
Posts: 288
From: Alberta
Joined: 05-11-2010


Message 397 of 752 (587670)
10-20-2010 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by crashfrog
09-18-2010 2:21 PM


Re: Genetic Information
quote:
There's a substantial amount of evidence that your "God" is a fabrication, so it's impossible for "God" to have had anything to do with it; there's no such thing.
So because my christian God is wrong, there cannot be any higher being?
quote:
You would be the first theist in a long while who was truly prepared to honestly debate the existence of God - if you actually are. Like most theists, though, I suspect you're not prepared to become an atheist if atheist arguments are convincing. Won't the debate simply end with you saying "well, say what you like, but you can't shake my faith in God"? And if you're not even willing to consider the other side, how can you debate it?
I am more than willing to discuss the Biblical God if you like. I have debated this many times. Though this subject is very tough to debate, because the information in the Bible is not accepted by evolutionists. There is physical evidence of biblical stories however. If you are game, I am too. If the Bible is truely the written word of God, then 100% of it must be true. If it is not, then it was not God directed, and Christianity is not 100% true. Then the question is, why put your faith and trust in a God that is not perfect?
Again, I'm game if you are.
quote:
Absurd, just-in-time coincidences are your position, theist, not mine.
If natural selection and macroevolution over time is true, then your entire belief system is based on just-in-time coincidences, hahahaha. Unless evolution was directed???

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by crashfrog, posted 09-18-2010 2:21 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 408 by crashfrog, posted 10-21-2010 8:57 PM dennis780 has not replied
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dennis780
Member (Idle past 4776 days)
Posts: 288
From: Alberta
Joined: 05-11-2010


Message 398 of 752 (587672)
10-20-2010 4:17 AM
Reply to: Message 392 by IchiBan
09-19-2010 11:59 PM


quote:
No one knows when the flood was. including the Biblical scholars whom you like to quote. So your insistence of selecting a date is only a red herring so you can go trot out & say that you found no evidence of a flood at that time.
One, many people know when the flood was, if they read their Bible, including myself. If you bothered to look at the bible for even 30 minutes, you notice that every man written about gives their age.
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth... Genesis 5:3
And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos
Genesis 5:6
And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan
Genesis 5:9
And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel
Genesis 5:12
And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared
Genesis 5:15
And so on...using these dates, we work forward. I could list all the ages, but it would take ages, no pun intended, but the biblical flood took place 1656 years from Creation. 600 of Noahs years before the flood as 6000 (1 = 1000 as written in Genesis) is the year 10990 + 23 years of judgement is 11013 bc.(23 years are sidenote, but relevent). Noah lived 350 years after the flood. Again adding 3500 years to 4990 comes to 1490 bc. that is important because in 1447 bc The exodus from Egypt started and in 1447 that would put Moses at 40 years old and Aaron his brother at 43. 1490 minus 43 is 1447 bc. , the year of the exodus. Now take 1490 bc and add 2011 ad you will get 300, back to Noah (its 3501 but minus 1 for the 0 year between bc and ad) there it is 110013 bc to 2011 ad.
I win.
quote:
Also it is easy to notice that you try to place people in a double bind by the way you present your replies when there could other answers. Why is it easy to notice? because you do that in almost every answer you give.
Is that a question? So the answer above was a redirect. You win. Because you are evolutionist, you must win.
quote:
By the way the topic of this thread is or was 'problems with evolution' not anything to do with the flood.
No, this topic is listed under free-for-all, giving way to many different subjects. And I have a problem with evolution, so I should be allowed to post, and you should not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by IchiBan, posted 09-19-2010 11:59 PM IchiBan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Granny Magda, posted 10-21-2010 11:39 AM dennis780 has not replied

dennis780
Member (Idle past 4776 days)
Posts: 288
From: Alberta
Joined: 05-11-2010


Message 399 of 752 (587673)
10-20-2010 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by Coyote
09-26-2010 10:28 AM


Re: The flood myth
quote:
That is due to uplifting. It is a phenomenon that is well understood.
Due to uplifting? Not by me. Do you have a reference so I can read up on it?
Talk.origins has a claim number for everything. So now talk.origins is your source for information, but 'creos' websites are not valid. You are allowed to use information from websites that have a evolutionist bias, but 'creos' websites are full of lies. Hmm. You got me.
Also, my point was that sea shells are found worldwide, not just on mountain tops. The eqyptian stones carved and used for the pyramids have sea shells in them. How did sea shells get in the desert?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Coyote, posted 09-26-2010 10:28 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 400 by frako, posted 10-20-2010 4:40 AM dennis780 has replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 400 of 752 (587675)
10-20-2010 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 399 by dennis780
10-20-2010 4:30 AM


Re: The flood myth
How did sea shells get in the desert?
god did it yust kidding evolution did it
no they got there trough the uplifting of the continents, those places where once the sea flor, then some continental plates pressed together and slowly rose those places above water.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by dennis780, posted 10-20-2010 4:30 AM dennis780 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by dennis780, posted 10-20-2010 5:07 AM frako has not replied

dennis780
Member (Idle past 4776 days)
Posts: 288
From: Alberta
Joined: 05-11-2010


Message 401 of 752 (587678)
10-20-2010 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 400 by frako
10-20-2010 4:40 AM


Re: The flood myth
quote:
no they got there trough the uplifting of the continents, those places where once the sea flor, then some
continental plates pressed together and slowly rose those places above water.
Hmm. Some plates? Pressed together?
I'm going to assume that you are talking about the Arabian and African techtonic plates, since these are the only two that meet anywhere near egypt. Heres my problem with your answer. You didn't give any resources or references supporting your claim. And the plates aren't 'pushing' anything up...because they are moving away from each other every year:
quote:
Along its northeast margin, the African Plate is bounded by the Red Sea Rift where the Arabian Plate is moving away from the African Plate.
African Plate - Wikipedia
The african plate moves north-east at around 2.15 cm (+/-)/year, while the arabian plate moves north at about 4.65 cm (+/-)/year. The arabian plate is moving away at more than twice the speed.
So, again, how did sea shells end up in the desert?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by frako, posted 10-20-2010 4:40 AM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Panda, posted 10-20-2010 5:43 AM dennis780 has replied

Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 402 of 752 (587682)
10-20-2010 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by dennis780
10-20-2010 5:07 AM


Re: The flood myth
dennis780 writes:
So, again, how did sea shells end up in the desert?
From YOUR link:
quote:
The African Plate comprises several continental blocks or cratons, stable continental blocks of old rocks, which came together to form the African continent during the assembly of the supercontinent Gondwana around 550 million years ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by dennis780, posted 10-20-2010 5:07 AM dennis780 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 403 by dennis780, posted 10-21-2010 3:01 AM Panda has replied

dennis780
Member (Idle past 4776 days)
Posts: 288
From: Alberta
Joined: 05-11-2010


Message 403 of 752 (587839)
10-21-2010 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 402 by Panda
10-20-2010 5:43 AM


Re: The flood myth
quote:
The African Plate comprises several continental blocks or cratons, stable continental blocks of old rocks, which came together to form the African continent during the assembly of the supercontinent Gondwana around 550 million years ago.
And??
quote:
For example, X-ray diffraction and other analysis shows that the fossils are ‘largely undamaged’ and distributed throughout the stone ‘in accordance with their typical distribution at sea floors’.
Pyramids seashells - creation.com
Continental uplifting does NOT occur in Egypt. If uplifting does not occur, sea shells should not be found in the desert. Subsidance occurs on almost all edges of most techtonic plates. The exact opposite of uplift. The rates of subsidance depend on the deepth of the surrounding water and the thermal regime of the mantle beneath. There is no evidence that in my link that suggests 'uplift' or 'sea shells' in the crusts of either plate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by Panda, posted 10-20-2010 5:43 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by ringo, posted 10-21-2010 3:35 AM dennis780 has not replied
 Message 405 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-21-2010 3:44 AM dennis780 has not replied
 Message 406 by Panda, posted 10-21-2010 10:08 AM dennis780 has not replied
 Message 410 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2010 1:43 AM dennis780 has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 404 of 752 (587851)
10-21-2010 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by dennis780
10-21-2010 3:01 AM


Re: The flood myth
dennis780 writes:
Continental uplifting does NOT occur in Egypt.
Try Googling "continental uplift egypt".

"It appears that many of you turn to Hebrew to escape the English...." -- Joseppi

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by dennis780, posted 10-21-2010 3:01 AM dennis780 has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 405 of 752 (587856)
10-21-2010 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by dennis780
10-21-2010 3:01 AM


Re: The flood myth
Continental uplifting does NOT occur in Egypt. If uplifting does not occur, sea shells should not be found in the desert.
That was ... weird.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by dennis780, posted 10-21-2010 3:01 AM dennis780 has not replied

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