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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 451 of 710 (800875)
03-01-2017 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Faith
03-01-2017 2:29 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
Faith writes:
By the way, I recall taking one of those quizzes here a few years ago, or more than one maybe, that places you somewhere in a quadrant on a graph according to your political views, and I always end up very near the center, maybe in a Rightist quadrant but not far into it.
That's because the quiz forces you to actually think about issues instead of just spouting rhetoric.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(4)
Message 452 of 710 (800879)
03-01-2017 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by Faith
03-01-2017 2:21 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
quote:
How Trump is treated by the MSM/left is certainly not something I made up, I see the evidence in headlines every time I go online, and I'm just one of a huge crowd that recognizes what the "fake news" sources are doing, that's why so many call them fake news.
Do they refuse to print falsehoods that Trump wants them to print and print Truths that Trump doesn't want them to print. Isn't that what an unbiased news source should do ? Isn't calling it "fake news" outright lying ?

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 453 of 710 (800886)
03-01-2017 3:38 PM


Analysis of New York Times Article
Since no supporters of Trump's claims of "fake news" are offering any actual evidential support I thought I'd help them out by conducting a brief review of this article from today's New York Times: Trump Offers Up a More Hopeful Vision. I'll be looking to see if the article contains any biased or fake portions.
quote:
President Trump, in his first address to a joint session of Congress, defended his tumultuous presidency on Tuesday and said he was eager to reach across party lines and put aside trivial fights to help ordinary Americans.
Given the chaotic immigration ban and the fear he's sowed in the immigrant community, the concerns he's sparked in NATO, the insults to foreign cities, countries and heads of state, and the confusion he's caused about health care, tumultuous seems a more than fair characterization of the Trump presidency thus far. It must at least be agreed that his presidency has been very non-traditional.
quote:
But he raised new questions about his policy priorities and how he plans to achieve them, especially on immigration.
Only hours before his address, Mr. Trump had broken from his tough immigration stance in remarks at the White House, suggesting that legal status be granted to millions of undocumented immigrants who have not committed serious crimes. Many of Mr. Trump’s core supporters had denounced that approach as amnesty during the campaign.
But in his speech, Mr. Trump never mentioned legalizing undocumented people and over all held to the tough-on-immigration theme of his campaign.
Mentioning immigration compromise in his briefing with news anchors and then leaving it out of his SOTU address certainly does raise questions.
quote:
But in contrast with the dark themes of his inaugural address, Mr. Trump’s speech to Congress was a more optimistic vision of America and what he called the promises ahead.
The SOTU address was much clearly more optimistic than the inaugural with its many dark references to stealing and carnage and the red blood of patriots and ravages and destruction and terrorism and so forth.
quote:
Although Mr. Trump’s presidency has been defined by executive orders and pronouncements, his speech appeared to be an attempt to open a new phase and reflected his need for cooperation from Congress.
This seems an accurate assessment.
quote:
The president has yet to propose major legislation to achieve his goals, with members of his cabinet and senior staff members divided over key elements of tax and health plans, and congressional Republicans split on how to structure them. By this point in his presidency, Mr. Obama had established an active if not always friendly working relationship with a Democratic Congress, having signed into law a $787 billion package of spending and tax cuts intended to stabilize the economy.
This is a clearly biased paragraph that goes well beyond factual reporting to make comparisons with the previous president who faced far more urgent economic problems than those faced today and so had to move rapidly.
quote:
Mr. Trump laid out the broad outlines of a health care overhaul that papered over divisions among Republicans about how to structure it, calling for a plan that uses tax credits and tax-advantaged savings accounts to help Americans buy insurance, and promising a stable transition from the existing system.
This is just referring to the differences of opinion among Republicans on health care, ranging from complete repeal of Obamacare without replacement all the way to keeping much of it.
quote:
Nor did Mr. Trump criticize one of his favorite foils, the fake news media.
This seems an unnecessary jab at a time when the president has just taken a very positive step toward a more traditional and presidential style.
quote:
The speech reflected the war Mr. Trump is fighting with himself and his inner circle.
Characterizing policy differences within the administration as "war" seems unnecessarily harsh.
There's much more in the article, of course, but those were the parts that I thought could be challenged as biased. They was not, as far as I could tell, any fake or incorrect information in the article.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 460 by Faith, posted 03-01-2017 8:24 PM Percy has replied
 Message 468 by Faith, posted 03-01-2017 10:51 PM Percy has replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1406 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 454 of 710 (800887)
03-01-2017 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by Faith
03-01-2017 2:21 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
Um, I think it's more likely that leftist thinking has managed to get itself accepted as mainstream over the last few decades. It shouldn't be too hard simply to define a leftist idea as versus a conservative idea and see that they align with my view of the chart better than yours. But it's more than just a difference of political views these days, it's the active smear campaign against Trump that's become the problem.
Tell me Faith, is there any news source or internet source too far to the right for you?
I'm probably farther right than a lot of conservatives -- which I attribute to my Christian perspective which a lot of conservatives don't share, but nevertheless I'd put the Mainstream/Center no more than one column to the left of me. ...
Which means many conservatives are liberals, fascinating.
...What may or may not be to the right of me I'd have to sort out idea by idea.
And I'll bet you find very little in that search
How Trump is treated by the MSM/left is certainly not something I made up, I see the evidence in headlines every time I go online, and I'm just one of a huge crowd that recognizes what the "fake news" sources are doing, that's why so many call them fake news.
Like the huge crowd at his inauguration? Remember that discussion?
Is it "fake news" to say that Obama's was bigger, or is it fact and that the complaints about fake news are what is actually fake?
How Trump is treated in the news is due to his trying to lie and create a false story while the media corrects him.
That he wants you to believe he is a victim is his way of controlling you. Standard dictator protocol. You should know, because you were always ranting on about how Obama was being a dictator.
Enjoy
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fix a quote box.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Faith, posted 03-01-2017 2:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by Faith, posted 03-01-2017 10:42 PM RAZD has replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 455 of 710 (800889)
03-01-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by RAZD
02-24-2017 5:39 PM


Re: Mapping out News sources by credibility
Sorry about the late question
Where did this graphic in message 338 about left/right vs reliable/biased news sources come from? Your opinion? Polling? Academic study from...?
Edited by 14174dm, : clarification

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AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 456 of 710 (800897)
03-01-2017 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 450 by Faith
03-01-2017 2:29 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
Political Compass
I'd be interested in looking back for the results.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 450 by Faith, posted 03-01-2017 2:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 457 of 710 (800899)
03-01-2017 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 444 by Faith
03-01-2017 11:43 AM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
Yes, that chart is perfect, thanks. You're awfully good at that sort of thing.
What browser do you use? There are tools out there for inverting colours and making text white with dark backgrounds and things. Here are some examples:
Dark Reader - Chrome Web Store
Invert Colors — Get this Extension for Firefox (en-GB)
How to Enable Dark Theme on Edge Browser | Laptop Mag

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Replies to this message:
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 458 of 710 (800900)
03-01-2017 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by Modulous
03-01-2017 6:58 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
I've told Faith before about a chrome extension called High Contrast. It offers several options to see what works best for her, and you can adjust it differently for different pages.
Chrome extension High Contrast

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 459 of 710 (800901)
03-01-2017 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 452 by PaulK
03-01-2017 2:51 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
Do they refuse to print falsehoods that Trump wants them to print and print Truths that Trump doesn't want them to print. Isn't that what an unbiased news source should do ? Isn't calling it "fake news" outright lying ?
Headlines I'm talking about misrepresent facts I happen to know about, or put accounts into pejorative language, or focus on somebody's negative opinion of something Trump said or did instead of just describing what he said or did.
Edited by Faith, : fix quote code

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 460 of 710 (800902)
03-01-2017 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 453 by Percy
03-01-2017 3:38 PM


Re: Analysis of New York Times Article
Given the chaotic immigration ban and the fear he's sowed in the immigrant community, the concerns he's sparked in NATO, the insults to foreign cities, countries and heads of state, and the confusion he's caused about health care, tumultuous seems a more than fair characterization of the Trump presidency thus far. It must at least be agreed that his presidency has been very non-traditional.
Well, but consider it this way: His ""tumultuous" presidency has had nothing to do with him, it's all about leftist reaction to him, the ridiculous protests, the threats to kill him and so on. It's really very odd that he is held responsible for others' reactions, which would be considered bizarre in any other context. His "chaotic immigration ban was not chaotic, people's reactions made it chaotic, leftist reactions; his supporters had no problem with it and we still don't. The "fear" in the immigration community is a truly wacko case in point. What on earth did Trump do except promise to deport criminals? Having an "immigration day" and Cuomo's strange remark suggesting Trump might throw out his legal immigrant family, are either a failure of intelligence to the point of dementia, or a designed attempt to pretend he is a threat to legal immigrants. Trump didn't cause this, his enemies are causing it. For what purpose? To confuse the public? To turn the public against him?
I don't know about "the concerns he's sparked in NATO" but perhaps concerns should be sparked in NATO, perhaps Trump plans to do something good and right that concerns NATO? I suppose by " the insults to foreign cities, countries and heads of state" you mean his mention of the chaos in Europe caused by the flooding in of millions of Muslim immigrants who are a big problem they don't want to admit, that Trump wants to protect America from? They are strangled by political correctness, they have to whitewash their horrific immigration problems and that's Trump's fault for telling the truth about it. I'm not sure exactly what "confusion he's caused about health care" except the media's loving to make issues of things before they are finished... "tumultuous seems a more than fair characterization of the Trump presidency thus far. It must at least be agreed that his presidency has been very non-traditional." Oh I'm not particularly bothered by the word "tumultuous" but blaming on him what is really media-generated tumult, or leftist plots to make him look bad -- the raucous townhall meetings about Trump policies are due to leftist infiltrators for instance, doing their usual best to destroy normal discussion and MAKE chaos where there doesn't have to be chaos.
I do think, however, that Trump might be able to mitigate some of this if he had a different personality instead of always reacting combatively, but probably it wouldn't make a lot of difference in the end, it's just that the Left hates everything he stands for and are going to make as much of a ruckus as they can no matter what he does.
I'm not up to reading your whole post right now I'm afraid so the above is just my initial reaction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by Percy, posted 03-01-2017 3:38 PM Percy has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 461 of 710 (800903)
03-01-2017 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 456 by AdminAsgara
03-01-2017 6:33 PM


Political positions
Political Compass
I'd be interested in looking back for the results.
If you can find the quizzes I'd be interested too. My own quick search turned up nothing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 462 of 710 (800904)
03-01-2017 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by Modulous
03-01-2017 6:58 PM


Tech headaches
Thanks, to you and Asgara both. I just can't cope with even minimal technical issues these days, but since you provide links maybe I can do something. I have a new computer system because my other one crashed and I'm operating it with an absolute minimum of stuff I had on my old one because it's too much for me to find things on the new system, follow instructions to set things up and so on.

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 463 of 710 (800905)
03-01-2017 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 461 by Faith
03-01-2017 8:36 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
The quiz itself is on the link I posted in the message you are replying to.
The Political Compass is the original thread. Unfortunately a lot of the graphs in that thread are no longer available.
If people want to give me their scores on a new taking of the test I will graph them again. We can continue on the old thread as it is pretty short.
Again, post replies and or scores on the above mentioned thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 461 by Faith, posted 03-01-2017 8:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 464 of 710 (800909)
03-01-2017 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 463 by Asgara
03-01-2017 8:42 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
I don't want to take a new quiz, I just wanted to find the old ones to see what my scores were. Fortunately Moose found one of them.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 465 of 710 (800910)
03-01-2017 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Faith
03-01-2017 9:16 PM


Re: it's hard to walk with only right feet ...
I've added you to the chart... pretty much smack dab in the middle

This message is a reply to:
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