Jerry Falwell dead.

Re: Nonsense, Falwell was simply evil
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What good did he do?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You don't read well, do you? Go back and read my stuff. I listed a number of good things he did to help the poor, help single moms who wanted to keep their babies, education, providing good citizens and trained workers for all types of work and professions, keeping folks from going bad, living good productive lives, et al et al et al.If citizens don't like his politics they can work in the system fair and square like he did to support their own political liking. No single organization is more powerful than the ACLU who opposes about all Falwell, Dobson and others support. He's not forcing anything on anyone no more than the Rev Jessie Jackson and other leftists who are every bit as political as Falwell.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

What you mean to say is that as long as one was a white Protestant male, things were pretty nice in the past.I agree.Of course, once women, homosexuals, non-whites, and other oppressed groups and minorities started to demand equal rights, many of you white protestant males didn't like it.Frankly, Buz, your selective memory/spin doctoring of the history of civil rights in this country takes my breath away.You are so completely deluded.

So then everybody has a right to believe anything they want, say anything they want except Falwell, and other christian fundies.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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No single organization is more powerful than the ACLU who opposes about all Falwell, Dobson and others support.

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Buzsaw, you have been told many times, over the course of several years that the ACLU defended Falwell in a religious rights case, despite his heaping disdain upon the organization for years and years.Are you so accustomed to inventing your own Buzreality that you refuse to retain that fact in your memory?

Nator, liking the Christian gospel preacher to a genocide murderer of millions is simply nonsensical and sick on your part and the part of others who've done so in this thread. It's as obsurd and meanspirited as Christophobia can get. You and some other bashers spewing your hate need Biblical love medicine bad to get over your chronic case.At least Larry Flint and Jessie Jackson gave the man due credit for being kind and gentlemanly. You all should take some lessons from these men on this count. This all reminds me of the account of the crucifixion where the whole Pharasaic hypocritial crowd was shouting frenzied demands for the crucifixion of an innocent man, calling for the release of the murder Barabas all the while.

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So then everybody has a right to believe anything they want, say anything they want except Falwell, and other christian fundies.

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Of course Falwell and other Christian fundies can say what they want.The problem comes when Christian fundies get into positions of power in our government and start trying to disregard or circumvent the Bill of Rights or the Constitution in order to usher in state-sponsored Christianity, thus forcing everyone to adhere to their particular religious doctrine, moral code, or set of beliefs.And before you scoff and tell me that this won't happen, I will tell you that it is already happening right now.Let me know if you want examples.

No no, Falwell and the others all have a right to say what they want.But we have the right to say "they were despicable, and I'm glad they;re dead."Saying that is a lot different from saying "you shouldn't be allowed to say that."Just like what I said to Buz. He can continue to spew his filth, and I'll just call it filth and not respond to him any more. I'll say the same regarding anyone who says someone's gender/race/religion/sexual orientation was the cause of a natural fucking disaster.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

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You don't read well, do you?

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You didn't reply to me. You're referring to something buried 2/3 of the way through an answer to someone else. The beginning of it didn't interest me, and it wasn't addressed to me, so no, I didn't notice this:

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How many folks in poor nations overseas who were helped benevolently by this man's work think they are worse off from having received food, clothes, education, et al? How many single mothers who kept their children, helped financially, spiritually, et al along by the Falwell ministries think they were worse off by this man's work? Likely none or few.

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I am unfamiliar with this, and did in fact look around for info on such charitable work. I see nothing even on Falwell Ministries about overseas aid, although I do see the Liberty Godparent Foundation aimed at unwed teen mothers. Which I suppose was at least meant well.His religious, political, and educational ministries themselves are not part of his positive contributions. He's twisted religion, moved us toward authoritarian politics, and created an anti-intellecutal university. Any good that's come from those has been accidental and in spite of Falwell, not because of him.

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ACLU who opposes about all Falwell, Dobson and others support.

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Errr....read this.

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He wreaked incredible havoc on the structure and traditions of this country. He began a tradition of religious divisiveness and ignorance that is in full swing to this day, and many people throughout the world have paid the price with their lives.

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The disrespect you're seeing right now is nothing compared to the disrespect to basic human dignity his ministry represented. I guess he loved his kids, but to the extent that they're going to grow up just like him even his parenting did the world a disservice.

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What are we supposed to say, Buz? That he was a "good person"? He wasn't. He was a deep moral coward. He described the death of homosexuals as a cause for "celebration in heaven." This was a man who delighted in demagoguery and in putting people in their places; who delighted in seeing sinners come to punishment. Who delighted in fleecing his own parishioners by issuing fraudulent "church bonds."

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This was not a good man. Can you be surprised that few are feeling dismayed by the death of a bad man? That many are happy that the most divisive and destructive figure in American religious politics has died with no heir apparent?

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You mean like the things he said while he was alive?I've reproduced my earlier remarks in this thread. Can you point out where I've said something "vile and meanspirited"?

I didn't compare Falwell to Hitler.I compared your glowing critique of his life to the glowing verses that the Hitler Youth poet wrote about his or her leader.It was to point out that if a charismatic leader effectively manipulates people's fears and capitalizes upon their prejudices, they will be willfully blind to almost any immoral, despicable, self-serving behavior displayed by that leader.Way to drink the KoolAde, buz.Anyway, that poem was written in the 30's, during the time the Nazis called "The Persecution" before the Nazi takeover in Austria. The Jews were increasingly persecuted but they were mostly being forced out of the country at this point. there were no roundups yet, no deathcamps, no ovens or gas chambers.None of the authors had any inkling of what horrors were to come.You were alive during WW2, weren't you? You should know this stuff better than I do.Edited by nator, : No reason given.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

I remember that thread, Dan, and although I haven't looked it up to be sure I think I changed my mind during the course of it. I remember it got quite heated between myself and rrhain, and I think he was the one who finally convinced me I was wrong.

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FALWELL WAS DOING GOOD IN THAT HE WAS WARNING OF THE KIND OF THINGS GOD DOES TO NATIONS WHO DEPART FROM TRUTH AND FROM THE PRINCIPLES THAT BRING BLESSING TO THE NATION.

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That's bullshit! If God takes care of such things, what the hell are we doing in Iraq?

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W.W.E.D.?

Good point... I guess if it were me, I'd be thinking 'damn, bastard never got a chance to at least try and repent.'

He had his chance, according to the ghost writer of his autobiography (a gay man and the founder of SoulForce.) In the 90's I think it was, Falwell had an opportunity to make inroads into the gay Christian community, but he got such a pushback from the Moral Majority crowd that he soon retreated right back into bigotry.

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bastard never got a chance to at least try and repent.

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73 years is plenty of time. He chose not to.