Summations Only

It relates to honesty. Probably not something you are interested in. No - I used the word 'deranged'.
You can look it up, if you want.Edited by Panda, : Removed all references to crashfrog's lies, as per Admin request.

Varmint aren't the only things people hunt, crash. Anything bigger than a varmint, like boar and bigger, requires a larger caliber (by law) than a .22. I thought you said hunting round, not "teaching Jr. to shoot cans off the shed" rounds. My bad.- Oni

Sure. Most of us aren't in any particular danger of being attacked. I don't think it's surprising that people - even ones in high-crime areas - might say to themselves "you know, I think the risk of owning and carrying a firearm is worse, to me, than the risk of being attacked." People make their own choices about how best to defend themselves, because every situation is different and unique. I'm not saying that people have to defend themselves in any particular way.In fact, you're the one saying that. You're the one saying that anybody who makes a decision to use a handgun to defend themselves is making the wrong decision, 100% of the time, and we need to stop them from doing that. I disagree. I don't think you can make that decision for people. Where do you live? (Surely not the "Dark Side of the Moon.") That judo and knifeplay aren't going to be effective self-defense techniques for the wheelchair-bound. That's all. It's hard for me to see that as a contentious point. I see it differently, I guess. I believe the goal should be that people walk around safe. You say that, in fact a lot of you say that, but I have objective evidence that you're all wrong. Did somebody hack EvC Forum because of something you said, ever? Do you have almost 20,000 posts in 9 years? Those aren't from me talking to myself, Oni. That's because when I argue with people, they can't seem to help but argue against me half-a-dozen strong. It's just objectively the case that people want to argue with me. I'm sure you'll tell me it's something I'm doing, and I don't deny that it is - there's something about me, and I jokingly use synedoche to ascribe it to the frog avatars I'm always using, that causes you people to lose your shit. I didn't see Kyle Maynard, who isn't a paraplegic, do any MMA in your video. I saw him roll around on the floor while a guy with arms and legs tried to grapple him. And what a surprise, you can't elbow-lock a guy who doesn't have any elbows. But you can sure as hell kick the shit out of him, and the truth of the matter is that Kyle Maynard, despite training 24-7 in mixed martial arts, gets the shit kicked out of him in virtually every single match.So it's a pretty shitty example. So obviously I argued with it. Why did you think Kyle Maynard, who is neither an effective Mixed Martial Artist nor a paraplegic, was a good counter to my contention that paraplegics aren't going to be any good at Mixed Martial Arts? See if you can talk me through that "flow".

Ok, I guess, but your clever plan to have other people solve all the problems isn't terribly compelling, and it kind of makes me wonder what use it is to talk about it with you. Can you send someone over who actually knows what they're talking about?

Where did I assert that varmints are the only things that people hunt? Be specific.

Seems like a good piece of evidence to start looking into the effects of strict gun laws. I admit, every country has it's own unique issues to deal with, but a positive outlook rather than negative nit-picking I feel would work to our advantage in the long run. Again, just giving alternatives for self-defesne that doesn't involve all of us strapped with a Glock yelling Yippy Ki Yay motherfuckers at the first sign of danger. Where are you living that this is happen to a degree that the people there are better off armed? Wait, you misunderstand. They're not 'dangerous' in the hands of expert shooters. They're dangerous when stolen and used by idiots out to harm people. I was suggesting eliminating those peoples source of acquiring guns. And, it would be fine to do so since those weapons are not of any real necessity to anyone aside from a hobby. Have they though? Have they though?And note, that I changed by opinion to simply making the weapons illegal like in the UK.- Oni

Are paraplegics particularly good at using firearms?Do paraplegics make up a statistically significant percentage of gun-related deaths or even crime in general, whether as the aggressors or the victims?Or is this as pointless a tangent as it appears to be?

Raw Story - Celebrating 18 Years of Independent Journalism - 404 Not Found

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Three New Jersey police were shot Friday morning and a gunman was killed after the suspect, who was already under arrest, somehow managed to get his hands on a gun, according to published reports.

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The shootings happened inside the Gloucester Township police station early Friday morning. Police have not named the suspect, but a spokesperson that the individual was taken in earlier on charges relating to domestic violence, according to video taken by CBS Philadelphia from a hastily organized press conference.

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The suspect in this case was shot and killed by police, a spokesperson told reporters. In our police department, obviously there is a very intense investigation regarding this incident in Gloucester Township headquarters.

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So he didn't bring a gun but stole one there, and he wasn't deterred by a room full of armed policemen ...Enjoy.

Equally I would ask you where did I suggest deer and boar are the only things people hunt for? See, I was being a sarcastic comic again turing what you said to me back onto you.- Oni

In Message 866 when you denied that .22 LR is a hunting round. The basis for your denial, you stated, was that you couldn't hunt deer or boar with it.

Then we can agree that carrying a handgun around in your day to day life is a bit excessive and unnecessary. Yes and no. Yes, we should come up with stricter gun laws that reduces the amount of guns on the streets. One of those methods would be to get rid of handguns. I don't however believe that people currently using handguns to defend themselves ar making the wrong decision because they ARE acting in accordance to the law (assuming that they are actually following the rules of gun ownership).I was just suggesting other means of self-defense rather than strapping a gun to your side and walking around the city like that. Close though... NYC Fair enough. But are you then suggesting all wheelchair bound people carry handguns? You've admitted most of us aren't in any particular danger of being attacked. So why should wheelchair people be worried to the point of arming themselves just to go outside? I agree. But are you suggesting we are all safer walking around with guns? Okay then, you're not crazy at all. Listen, I felt your counter to me saying there are alternative means of self-defense by bringing up the paraplegic was silly and I countered it with a silly video. That's all.- Oni

I didn't deny anything, dude. What the fuck is wrong with you?I said I didn't think of a .22 when I thought of hunting rounds.See: And I only said that because you said most people think .22 when they think of a hunting round. When someone says "I'm going hunting" I don't personally think of them using a .22, I think of a bigger caliber.- Oni

I think I've figured out why, but this isn't the place for it. Let me know if you want me to spell it out for you.

I think Onifre is making a probabilistic argument. It's the same as the argument for childhood vaccinations, where some children suffer adverse effects from the vaccination itself, but overall childhood mortality drops. Gun deaths will be greatly reduced if people do not have guns for personal defense. Some people will die who wouldn't had they been armed, but there will be dramatically fewer gun deaths.We're going to have to make a similar decision about driving our cars sometime within the next 20 or 30 years. With cars under computer control automobile deaths will drop dramatically, but deaths will still occur due to software and hardware bugs, hardware failures and information errors/inaccuracies. Some will argue that they are safer when they have full control of their car, and maybe some of them will be right, but in the aggregate the more cars controlled by people the less safe everyone around them will be.It's the same for guns. In the vast majority of situations, the mere presence of a gun makes everyone nearby less safe.--Percy

As crash has no desire to debate, I will not engage on debate with himBut I will continue to point out his errors and misrepresentations. Wrong..22 long rifle is a plinking and small animal round. It is too underpowered for varmints.

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.22 Long Rifle (the most popular rimfire caliber) is somewhat underpowered for small predators, but is perfectly adequate to dealing with typical vermin; the term "varmint" covers larger animals which usually harass farms from the outside (as opposed to infestation by vermin), and the varmint gun assists in the control of them.

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Varmint rifle - WikipediaA varmint rifle is not on off the shelf .22. It is a a rifle that shoots rounds with much more powder than a 22 long rifle.. Thus they have a classic necked down rifle cartridge. Left to right
.22 LR, .22-250 and .25-06The .25-06 is also capable for deer.