Fossil Sorting in the Great Flood Part 2

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I asked for a single piece of evidence

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No evidence I give you will accept, and vica versa it seems.

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Excuse me if I don't believe you that this comment referred to a "senile" fossil record

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I was talking about the old worn out theory of evolution, and it's senile proponents. Evolution=old age senility. Creation=young, alive vibrant up and coming pure truth.

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I never said the fossil layers were a miracle. Are you used to bullying people who fall for it, or something?

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In message 72 of this thread you wrote: If the fossil layering is not a miracle, then how did a flood that created almost all of the sediment, igneous, and metamorphic layers, sort fossils to such a fine degree that evolution is able to predict where fossils will be found.Oh yes, I see, animals huddled together according to kind. Never mind that rabbits all huddled in such a way to be stuck in mud above dinosaurs IN EVERY CASE. That pollen was feeling buddy-buddy and only gathered with its friends the grass blades. Again, a creationists complaining about the fantasies that evolutionists supposedly dream up while spinning tales of his own that explain nothing in an attempt to construct the illusion that creationism is actually supported by evidence.This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 06-30-2004 12:29 AM

Thanks for echoing the party line on the Rockies.

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...Given the abundant evidence of deformation and movement along the very well defined fault plane of this thrust fault all Mt. Rundle demonstrates is how deaf, dumb, and blind some Young Earth creationists are

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Thanks for the pronouncement. I am never surprised by the presumptions of evos. Who needs truth or evidence or reason to say or believe anything? I never even thought of thrusts or overthrusts when mentioning Rundle. To me, it was just layer after layer of fossil rich flood victims. Also, I wonder about some of the fast continent sliding theories, as to how they may have crumpled up the ranges as well?
Anyhow, I have a feeling if you bring it down to a very simple question, if thrusts are your concern there, such as 'why do we see what appears to be evidence of thrusting in the form of......(such and such)at this area of Rundle'? There may be other than evo ideas that could be brought to bear.
By the way, the three sisters, originally, I believe called, Faith, Hope, and Charity! Now, since Dawson, just three sisters, but I believe one peak is still called Charity. Rundle also was a missionary to the natives there, near Banff.
PS easy on the links, try using your own short words, if you can. Links are about as exciting as refering protestant churches to a catholic.

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I am never surprised by the presumptions of evos.

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Not a presumption, but data, something you lack. We can track fault movements, which are slow. Never has anyone measured plate movements that would even approach what Brown and others have hypothesized. Again, you are trying to hand wave away falsifying evidence by claiming that there is nothing to support it when in fact there is. This tactic is dishonest in the extreme and the only tactic left to young earth creationists. Lying really is their last hope.

Arkathon complains, about Bill Birkeland, no less:"PS easy on the links, try using your own short words,..."Ark, that is so unbearable arrogant, and shows so plainly that you have no desire to learn anything whatever about the topics you argue about. I stand in awe! You're right up there with Joralex in the Grand Presidium of the Willfully Pig-Ignorant!

Clavinist.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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If the fossil layering is not a miracle, then how did a flood that created almost all of the sediment, igneous, and metamorphic layers

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I'd say it was a result of the miracles of the flood. For example if a continent did slide, you got a lot of igneous, and metemorphic. Sediment? That's easy!

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Never mind that rabbits all huddled in such a way to be stuck in mud above dinosaurs IN EVERY CASE

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Every case? I never said a thing about every case. I raised one new possibility to potentially add in the mix. Why would bunnies get to higher ground than dinos? Could they hop there quicker? ha.

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That pollen was feeling buddy-buddy and only gathered with its friends the grass blades.

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Does this mean that grass pollen and fossilized grass were found together? How much? For example say is it mostly the pollen that is usually found?

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Again, a creationists complaining about the fantasies that evolutionists supposedly dream up while spinning tales of his own

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I actually find both stories to be inspired!

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Never has anyone measured plate movements that would even approach what Brown and others have hypothesized.

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Why should they if they are already more or less finished moving much?

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Why should they if they are already more or less finished moving much?

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They have NEVER moved fast, NEVER have they been observed to move that fast, and NEVER has anyone found ANY evidence to show that they have moved that fast in the past. Of course, this is a subject for another thread. I may actually start one on the Hawaiian islands if you think I need to show the evidence for the slow movement of tectonic plates.

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Never mind that rabbits all huddled in such a way to be stuck in mud above dinosaurs IN EVERY CASE
  —Loudmouth

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Every case? I never said a thing about every case. I raised one new possibility to potentially add in the mix. Why would bunnies get to higher ground than dinos? Could they hop there quicker? ha.

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But this is the case EVERY time we find modern, fossilized mammals and dinosaurs. Modern mammals are ALWAYS ABOVE dinosaurs, EVERY TIME. You must explain how a roaring flood, rain falling at feet per hour, continents moving at 35 miles and hour, jets of super heated water spraying into space, and violent waves were able to delicately sort fossils such as dinosaurs, rabbits, grass, grass pollen, and myriad of other organisms into an order that DOES NOT HAVE EXCEPTIONS. It didn't sort a few of the fossils, it sorted every one of them without exception in every place we dig up fossils. The best you can do is claim that rabbits run faster than dinosaurs, ignoring that at least a few dinosaurs could have ran faster, or that grass didn't use pollen but rather some other unknown type of reproduction. Very poor logic if you ask me.

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Does this mean that grass pollen and fossilized grass were found together? How much? For example say is it mostly the pollen that is usually found?

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Not sure on the ratio of grass vs grass pollen found, but I would think that the pollen may be in a position to be fossilized easier. Just as today, you would expect grass pollen to fall into lakes and become part of the bottom sediments. It would seem that pollen would be more likely to fossilize given its numbers (thousands of pollen grains per plant) and its transportability. What you have to explain is why we only find grass pollen in sediments devoid of dinosaurs and filled with organisms that are quite modern in morphology. Either grass came about after the ark, and therefore a product of macroevolution, or grass was around previous to the flood and the flood was able to sort small pollen grains, such as ferns and grass, so well that there are no known expceptions to the sorting. Care to venture how such a devastating, powerful, destructive flood was able to sort miniscule pollen grains without exception?

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I actually find both stories to be inspired!

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And that is where you are wrong. Evolution and current geologic theories are derived from the evidence in the earth while the Noachian flood is only evidenced in the Bible and nowhere in the earth. They are far from being comparable. One is supported by evidence while the other is solely supported by faith.

Message 88This drops one off in the middle of a discussion on plate tectonics.The previous few posts point to some details.This message has been edited by NosyNed, 07-01-2004 03:18 PM

Thanks Ned. For right now I want arkathon to explain how sorting of miniscule particles such as grass pollen can happen while plates millions of square miles in area are scooting across the earth at 10 mph, possibly underwater, with jets of superheated water shooting into space, rain coming down at feet per hour, etc. I would like to focus on that for now, but if your admin counterpart thinks we are venturing too far into tectonics let us know and we can start up a new sister thread (the one you linked to is perfect, but it is probably too long to start a fresh discussion with a new participant).

And, incidentally, the geology of Hawai'i proves that Pele is The One True God(dess), anyway: (from the USGS - http://pubs.usgs.gov/publications/text/hotspots.html )

Ah, geez, Coragyps. Now AiG is going to demand equal time for their Grand Canyon book!

Let's try S.A. Tree Sloths always above Velociraptors. Sloths don't swim, run, or swing in trees faster than velociraptors move in their sleep. Velociraptors always below sloths in the geological strata.Still making fantasy to support belief, so not any part of any literal interpretation.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}