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Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Does the Darwinian theory require modification or replacement? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Those are the issues we may well solve in the future with unbiased scientific research. Those are the issues we may well have solved already with unbiased scientific research. Of course, you can always daydream that tomorrow they'll find Bigfoot ... but a brain in the cell? That's a much smaller volume to search. It's not like they're going to say: "oh, it was there all along, it had fallen behind the endoplasmic reticulum".
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
If you read the postings on this board in reply to the scientific papers I cite, there is a definite desired outcome that the current theory of evolution not be challenged. A challenge to it would be rather fun. But a real challenge should be challenging; it shouldn't be a mixture of facts that have been incorporated into the theory for half a century on the one hand and vacuous rhetoric on the other. Wishful thinking also doesn't cut it. Let us know when you find something that challenges the current theory. Like that awesome brain-organelle or whatever-it-is you hope will turn up at some point. We'll be all ears. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I am torn as to whether there can be random mutations, but not convinced they do not occur. I do not rule out selection, but what I have a problem with is that this whole process of evolution is toatally random, accidential and w/o purpose. Then you'll be happy to know that it isn't. Problem solved.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8546 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
I am not a "woo believer" whatever that means. . . . (snip) . . . I am a person who believes in creation in some manner by a supernatural being ... That is a very good description of a woo believer.
You believe in "natual creation", I do not. I do not believe. I know only what the present facts and observations tell us and the direction they point. Only imagination and blind desire can manufacture from nothing, in the face of all the contrary evidence, the kind of universe you wish we lived it. It is a delusion that just will not yield up its proof. So at every turn you misunderstand, you misinterpret and you mis-frame the words and works of others attempting to justify your personal desires and confirm your delusion. You spend all your time in your fantasy. You deny the true beauty of a natural universe that made stars by purely natural means, which made atoms by purely natural means, that made planets and molecules and orchids and thunderstorms and puppies all on its own, not by accident but by nature, without any overseer or plan or magic. That is the real miracle of this universe and tragically, since you will pass this way but once, you are missing it. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
shadow71 writes: So Shapiro is not stating that Natural Genetic Engineering is a fact, but it is a hypothesis on evolutionary change, the environment, and sentience in cells, and the origins of macroevolution. He does not believe the modern synthesis explains these issues completely. Cute. So when Shapiro does not answer your question no, that means he agrees with you, but when he does not say yes, that also means he agrees with you. Why doesn't Shapiro mean what he actually said in his response? Do you understand that what is referred to as the "modern synthesis" is evolution theory formulated about 60 years ago? Do you even know the current state of evolutionary theory? How do you explain that the ideas that show up in Shapiro's 2010 paper also show up in papers that you have cited from one or two decades earlier?
He discusses a regulatory/cognitive view of evolution, which is a far cry from random mutation and accidential changes. Shapiro doesn't discuss your particular view. Does Shapiro hypothesize that random mutations and natural selection do not play a role in evolution? I've asked you this question before. Does Shapiro hypothesize on mechanisms that extend beyond the realm of single cell life forms? Dr. Wright explicitly acknowledges that she has not done this.
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molbiogirl Member (Idle past 2667 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: |
Wrights paper says it is possible "MANY MUTATIONS ARE TO SOME EXTENT DIRECTED..." She's talking about "microorganisms, from phage to fungi".I was quoting her passage on "higher organisms". See? In the passage you quoted? Completely random, undirected mutation is responsible for the evolution of higher organisms. You do understand that there are 2 million species on this planet, only 9000 of which are microorganisms, right?Wright claims that for 99.5% of the extant species on earth, mutation is completely random and undirected. Care to dispute Dr. Wright's findings? Cite a paper that supports directed mutation in something other than a microorganism. I see Wounded King is handling your continued misunderstanding of "directed" but I would like to repeat:
Wright writes: As discussed above, the mutations are sequence directed and not random in the sense that they occur in bases made vulnerable by virtue of their particular location within specific DNA sequences... Notice that careful wording? NOT RANDOM IN THE SENSE THAT.In other words, non random in ONLY ONE WAY (the location). Which base will mutate? At what position in the gene? In a coding or noncoding section? Do you, or do you not, understand what is being directed? THE LOCATION ONLY.Don't ignore my question this time. You may laugh at me, that is your right, but every day scientists who are not as you say creationists are putting forth new studies that lead to the conclusion of some planned, "engineered, if you will" program. Since, as you insist, there's an abundance of creo research, let's see some.In fact, why don't you dig up a creo paper on directed mutation in something other than a microorganism? Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given. Edited by molbiogirl, : No reason given.
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OliverChant Junior Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 28 Joined: |
Genetic mutatations or mistakes which make organism biologically more advanced-this right here shows that evolution does not invlove the bettering of species but you evolutionist argue that we evolve from mistakes,which by the way is funny because us humans have had many mutations yet remain the sam and continue with these genetic mishaps -my question why aren't we evolving?and dnt tell it take millions of years ,carbon dating has been proven inaccurate so one step closer in proving the earth is only thousands of years old
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frako Member (Idle past 331 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Genetic mutatations or mistakes which make organism biologically more advanced-this right here shows that evolution does not invlove the bettering of species so you are saying there are no good mutations like the flue changing every year, or desieses getting resistant to antibiotics and stuff like that that just does not happen in daily life.
my question why aren't we evolving Yes we are
which by the way is funny because us humans have had many mutations yet remain the sam and continue with these genetic mishaps well yea you have around 4 mutations yourself as well as do I. So we are not the same anymore or how much difference do you need enough to turn us in to super humans in one go from normal to super not gona happen slow process remember.
and dnt tell it take millions of years ,carbon dating has been proven inaccurate so one step closer in proving the earth is only thousands of years old Yes in your little world where the preacher who has no skills on a subject like:Absolute dating Amino acid dating Appearance Event Ordination Biochronology Dendrochronology Fluorine absorption dating Herbchronology Law of superposition Obsidian hydration dating Optical dating Optically stimulated luminescence Orbital tuning Oxidizable carbon ratio dating Principle of faunal succession Rehydroxylation dating Relative dating SPECMAP Thermoluminescence dating Wiggle matchingć Astronomical chronology yes all dating methods none point to a young earth.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
From Wikipedia In natural selection, negative selection[1] or purifying selection is the selective removal of alleles that are deleterious. This can result in stabilizing selection through the purging of deleterious variations that arise. Wounded King writes:
For instance your description of 'purifying selection' is nonsense. Purifying selection doesn't take over, it is simply one result of ongoing natural selection, and by acknowledging its role in this situation you are conceding that your fabulous "directed mutation" mechanisms are producing deleterious mutations which need to be weeded out. I think you need to realise that Wright's "direction" is regardless of the fitness benefits of the resultant mutation. The "direction" is simply to a specific genetic locus. Wright makes a reasonable argument that this will give an increased chance of a beneficial mutation occurring at that locus since it has an increased chance of all mutations associated with its transcriptional state. We can easily point out that this will also produce an increased chance of deleterious mutations at this locus, and this is where selection plays its part by favouring the proliferation of the beneficial mutations and tending to eliminate the deleterious ones. If a mutations beneficial and deleterious are directed to a specific locus, and then purifying selection deletes the deleterious mutations, isn't that a process which selects beneficial mutations that were directed to that locus?
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Have a really exciting paper coming. Hope to post about it next week sometime.
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Dr Adequate writes:
Then you'll be happy to know that it isn't. Problem solved. That's great news. Do we have some kind of diector for this non-random, non-accidential, purposeful process?
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2959 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
AZPaul writes:
You spend all your time in your fantasy. You deny the true beauty of a natural universe that made stars by purely natural means, which made atoms by purely natural means, that made planets and molecules and orchids and thunderstorms and puppies all on its own, not by accident but by nature, without any overseer or plan or magic. Not trying to be sarcastic here, but can you tell me what was the origin of the matter that made stars, atoms, planets, molecules?What was before the big bang & how did it arise? Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide and off-topic banner.
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OliverChant Junior Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 28 Joined: |
If you show me one method which cannot be argued against I'll believe you.But I don't as those where more than likely began by pro-evolutionists...
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frako Member (Idle past 331 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
That's great news. Do we have some kind of diector for this non-random, non-accidential, purposeful process?
NATURAL SELECTION <----- all.
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OliverChant Junior Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 28 Joined: |
And how can you tell me a flu is a good mutation don't make me laugh how can we be benefitting from flu?.And on what basis are we evolving?
Edited by OliverChant, : No reason given.
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