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Author | Topic: Problems with the Big Bang theory | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
why don't you share some of the evidence you have that the big bang actually happened. Something cannot come from nothing. Something had to always be around. You cannot deny this. Please spare me the multi-dimensional garbage too. The universe is infinite, it always was and always will be. An infinite God created it. That is how it is infinite. There is such peace to know that a loving God created all that is around us, and not that we are here by chance.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
That's telling him, DB!
Too bad, though, that the posts to which you are replying are several years old. Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
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Phalanx Member (Idle past 5712 days) Posts: 31 From: Old Bridge, NJ, US Joined: |
If you really wanted to know some of the evidence for the big-bang just crack open a 6th grade science text book. For all their faults, they hit the major points. As for the "multi-dimensional garbage", I'm not sure what you're specifically speaking of, but it seems to be a new idea from string theory. So, for all of you who keep saying, "but why did it ever 'decide' to expand?" your answer can be found there. Just another point of contention, the universe isn't necessarily infinite, unless you're speaking in terms of time. There are a couple of models of what our universe will do due to its expansion. The first being that it will continue expanding for eternity. The second, that the universe will reach a point where it will stop expanding and rebound bring itself back together.
So, if you really wanted to find some evidence of the big bang, I'd suggest hitting the library and cracking a textbook. And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54
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DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
You still didn't address my comment about something cannot come from nothing. There has to be something to "bang big", if you will, right? So where doest that "thing" come from? It's a really simple concept. If the universe always was, then by definition, it is infinite with respect to time. And if it is infinite, then the big bang theory implies that something arose from nothing all by itself. Does all this make sense? I am just curious as to how the founders of the big bang theory came to their conclusions without thinking about all this. Do you have any ideas? Where did the first particles of matter come from?
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: Oh, I'll address this. How do we know that something cannot come from nothing? Edited to add: My apologies to Robin. Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given. Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
You still didn't address my comment about something cannot come from nothing. There has to be something to "bang big", if you will, right? Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately our common sense notions, derived from our limited experience, often turn out to be wrong when applied to something far out of the range of our experience. We don't directly see anything coming from nothing, the principle of conservation of energy is inviolate ... but when you look at the very small and the very large those rules change some. In particular, one of several speculations about "where it came from" is that it literally did come from nothing ... the average energy of the Universe may be zero (positive energy from mass, negative energy from gravitation) ... and the entire Universe may be a sort of quantum fluctuation on an incredibly large scale, all allowed by the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle but incredibly unlikely. I don't know how seriously this idea is taken nowadays, and I don't know what the gamut of current speculation is, and I don't know what's currently the most likely candidate. People are thinking abut the question and trying to come up with testable hypotheses. It's difficult for many reasons. But don't trust "common sense" in this matter. It'll lead you astray.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
You still didn't address my comment about something cannot come from nothing. It seems reasonable, but there are two issues. 1. We don't know that. 2. The Big Bang doesn't postulate that something came from nothing, just that the universe used to be 'hotter' and 'denser'. If we consider space-time as a four dimensional object, and we look close to time=0 we get very hot and dense. Where this hotness and denseness came from is not really addressed by the Big Bang, and Relativity is unable to give an answer. More recent cosmology has been proposed to explain where the hotness and denseness came from, so you should probably consider those. The so called M-Theory for example - related to String Theory. There are some great FAQs out there that answer, or attempt to answer, this very interesting question. Try 121 FAQs about Big Bang Cosmology for the answer to some of them. You might also like M-theory, the theory formerly known as Strings. Hope that helps.
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DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
Show me proof that it can. Viable proof. Something that has been witnessed and documented? I don't think you can. Nothing has ever materialized from complete nothingness.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Why do I need to supply proof? I am merely considering it as one possibility among others; I don't know whether "something can come from nothing". But it is your argument that relies on the assertian that "something cannot come from nothing", so unless you can prove it, then it remains a possibility and so your argument fails.
Kings were put to death long before 21 January 1793. But regicides of earlier times and their followers were interested in attacking the person, not the principle, of the king. They wanted another king, and that was all. It never occurred to them that the throne could remain empty forever. -- Albert Camus
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DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
First of all, it isn't a principle of conservation of energy, it's a one of the Laws of Thermodynamics. Second of all, your answer didn't really answer much. The universe being in a state of fluctuation doesn't explain how something can come from nothing. Lastly, common sense happens to be the best way to provoke good debates. Common sense, although it may not answer a lot of questions, can stimulate the though processes and maybe even help some people think a little more objectively.
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DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
It hasn't been proven. Nobody has seen anything materialize out of nothing.
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DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
I wasn't arguing anything. I was just submitting a question. I was just curious. It's just that my question is being dodged. It has been dodged by so many for a long time. I cannot prove that matter cannot materialize out of nothing, but neither can anyone prove that it can, right? So here we are, at a stalemate because neither of our arguments can be proven.
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Phalanx Member (Idle past 5712 days) Posts: 31 From: Old Bridge, NJ, US Joined: |
I do believe the idea that the universe is a fluctuation is an explanation of how something can come from nothing. Holding that this is at all true, of which I'm not certain, then theoretically the universe could have just popped into existence. It just happens for the same reason that periodically you get something like a barrier jump. It's a principle of quantum mechanics. Although it is highly improbable it is well within the realm of the possible.
Edited by Phalanx, : Edited for grammar. And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54
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DivineBeginning Member (Idle past 6027 days) Posts: 100 Joined: |
The universe could have just popped into existence? Ah come on. That's ridiculous!
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Phalanx Member (Idle past 5712 days) Posts: 31 From: Old Bridge, NJ, US Joined: |
By nothing, do you mean absolutely nothing, or just not from matter? Matter can be created from "nothing", think radiation from a black hole. Given enough energy, particles do just pop of out nowhere, in essence. Though, there is the energy required to make that happen, so they don't just pop out of nowhere.
And the Ignorant shall fall to the Squirrels - Chip 2:54
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