What is: The Gospel According To You?

In the OP I was asking for (perhaps poorly) a kind of run-through-the-Bible/NT/gospel (not linearly as in a bible study however) view. Something that would synopsize the gospel story from beginning to end (in so far as it was relevant to the need for and mechanism of salvation). For example:The Gospel according to iano:
God created man/woman with the purpose of having a relationship with him. The relationship was to be one based on love but with man dependant on God. In order to achieve this God gave man free will. Otherwise man would have been an automaton. Man could now chose to obey God and maintain the perfect relationship or not and have it broken. Breaking would result in the spiritual death of man immediately and physical death eventually. Adam chose and the relationship was broken. Sin entered Adam as a spiritual infection which was transmitted to all who succeeded him: every man woman and child born since then. Not even a baby in spiritually innocent.The rest of the OT outlines both the preparation for something foretold at the outset: God would do something to enable mans restoration - Paradise would be regained. The way wasn't then clear but it was set in motion. Meanwhile, man continuing to turn from God (in the Jews behaviour), and God continuing to call them back is illustrated. Man is given every chance to make himself right with God under his own terms. And continually fails. He demonstrates completely that he cannot do this. The OT also gives any number of temporal pictures: divine law, judgement and love at work/blood sacrifice required to atone for sin/God leading his chosen people out of captivity etc - which parallel something which is also going on in the spiritual realmThen silence. 400 years of itJesus comes. He is born of a virgin and in being born so is not infected with the disease of every other man born. The line of sin is broken. He is referred to as the second Adam for this reason. He gets a chance to do what Adam did all over again. A fresh start: to obey God or not. Although fully God, he is made man and is subject to all the same temptation that Adam was before he fell.His ministry is filled with miracles and prophecy fulfilled, the purpose of which is to point to himself as the Messiah (or saviour) whom God has promised would be sent. The pictures behind his miracles in the temporal are also pointing us to the spiritual realm:- healing the blind. We are spiritually blind as a result of being dead spiritually. Dead men can't see spiritually.- raising the dead - pointing to spiritually dead people being brought back to life (hence "born again" or "born from above")- his living with tax collectors, beggars, prostitutes - the temporally lost, the dregs. He came to seek and save the spiritual lost, the spiritually dregs. Us.His message for all is that we believe: believe in him as the only person who is capable of restoring us to right relationship with God. Then, as now, people didn't get the message. Then, the Jews had a legalistic based religion in which getting right with God means following rules. Elaborate ritualistic rules in those days (613 I believe)or simple rules now "love thy neighbour as thyself" (which though one may try to, one cannot follow)And people then (as now) rail at that message. He pointed to himself as the only way to God, but man still insists that he can do it himself. Jesus railed at this, reserving his deepest anger for those who would promote Religon (or law following) as a means to God. "The blind leading the blind" he said of them.And these same people plotted against an innocent man and killed him. God knowing what they would do, used their own evil to achieve a central purpose of his plan of redemption of man. When Jesus was nailed to the cross he fulfilled his role as the Lamb of God who would take away the sins of the world. He echoed the OT pictures of spotless, sacrificial lambs on whom the sins of the Jews of the OT were temporally transferred and then dealt with by the spilling of the sacrifices blood. On the cross, the sins of mankind before and after him were transferred onto him and his blood was split and sin dealt with spiritually. Forever.Throughout his life, Jesus obeyed his father perfectly. He was born sinless and there was never any sin in his life to interrupt there being anything other than perfect relationship between them. This is why he always referred to God as his father. As he hung on the cross however he cried "My God, My God, why have you foresaken me?" At this point, the perfect relationship was ruptured as God poured out his wrath for our sin onto his son. Just before he died he said "Father, into my hands I commend my spirit". Gods wrath satisfied, relationship was again restored. A not incidental occurance at Jesus death was the renting of the curtain in the temple from top to bottom. The curtain had served to bar the way between a sinful people and the Holy of Holys - the place where God supposedly resided. It being rent physically, signified spiritually that the way was now open between man and God. It was achieved through Jesus death.Whilst Jesus bore our sin he had not sinned himself.Whatever the nature of the punishment (separation of the son from an eternal relationship with the Father being incomprehensible in degree of severity to us) it was sufficient. And Jesus, being still sinless could not be held by death. Death could find no just cause to hold him and had to release him. And so he rose.And salvation for us? It comes from believing him. Turning away from reliance on ourselves for our salvation by whatever means we have manufactured for ourselves. To realise that before God, all our attempts at loving God (how does one love a God they do not know?) or loving our neighbour (how can anyone love their neighbour to any degree higher than their own subjective standard tells them to?) are as he says they are: "as filthy rags". There are many stories in the Bible which illustrate subsequent NT writings on salvation being by faith (believing and accepting Jesus' finished work of redemption. A very compelling one is the story of the thief on the cross.Go read it (Luke 23:39): the gospel picture of the mechanism for salvation lies within (Romans covers it more technically especially Romans 1 - 8 incl) Look out for two responses a person can have to the gospel. One, a temporally condemned sinner who is on the very verge of entering eternity, maintaining his pride, maintaining his right to refuse up until the very end. Hurling insult at the only person in the world who can save him from eternal condemnation. Nothing has changed. You see people do the exact same here at EvC. If you want, you can go to websites and hang funny clothes on picture of a naked Jesus on the cross with the click of a mouse. You can buy Jesus sex toys. There are any number of ways to spit in his face.We see the same thing every day in death row films of killers asked if they want to say a final word. Even at that late point where there is nothing to gain, they refuse to say a word of repentance and hold onto their right to deny - up to and into the grave. They take their denial of their crime with them.Then there is the other thief. Something happens this man on his cross. He looks at Jesus and somehow recognizes that this is an innocent man. He accepts temporally publically and spiritually publically that he is a sinner who deserves everything he is getting and going to get. Then somehow, he recognizes that Jesus is who he says he is. He has no time to make amends."Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom" No expectation of what that might entail but he simply recognises Jesus as Lord and that he has a kingdom and that he, the thief is going to another life and that Jesus is the only person who is in a position to do anything with him now. He sees his need and and does the very thing that Adam rejected in the garden. He admits his dependance on God (Jesus is the way...)Then the overflowing abundance of Christ. He starts out with "Verily, Verily" or "Truly, Truly (..and the truth).. "I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise" (..and the eternal life)No time to love God, no time to love his neighbour. No need to in fact. For such things are not what saves a man.One might ask what it was that happened to the second thief that caused him to see, to realise Jesus is Lord, to believe, to cry out.That, boys and girls is another story for another time...

Yes, it betrayed a streak of petty meanness.

No problem. You had used the capital "G" Gospel in the OT and so I thought you were asking about what the Good News was. I was simply trying to answer that.It's simple.GOD loves us. And he Forgave everyone. And all he asks is that we try to do what's right.It really is that simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I thought you said the fundamental point was that we had to love ourselves.

Yup. Trying to do what's right is part of that.Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. Doing what's right.It really is as simple as that.AbE:Robin, until you love yourself, you cannot really help others, or love GOD.This message has been edited by jar, 04-09-2006 10:50 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It's not that simple.So you are claiming that doing what's right is part of loving ourselves?Suppose I love myself but I do you wrong? Suppose I don't care about you, but I continue to love myself?But suppose I don't love myself, but I do you right? I don't care about me, but I do care about you?Apparently, according to your concept, in both cases I have done wrong.I would disagree. I would think that in the second case I have acted well, but in the first case I have committed a sin.

Given a template of the idea behind this thread at msg 46, (a thousand words tell a picture) perhaps Robin you could be next up on the plate and (without quoting Matthew 25 PULEEEZE) give us the story as you see it.Or JarOr RingoOr whoever...

In both cases you screwed up.I have no clue about whether or not you sinned, and really wouldn't worry much about it either way. Sin is for you to settle someday with GOD.But in both cases you've been less than you might have been.It really IS that simple.Love GOD and love others as you love yourself.Quit trying to make what is really simple complex.GOD loves you.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

GOD loves us.Everyone is forgiven.GOD asks us to do two things, Love GOD and love others as we love ourselves.It really is as simple as that.That's 29 words, but GOD forgives me for being longwinded.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That is SUCH silliness, modern silliness, that would make Christians before this silly modern era roll over in their graves, if they were in their graves of course, which they aren't, they're in heaven, but they deplore such nonsense from there.The structure of the statement itself ought to clue you guys: Love others AS you love yourself. Loving yourself is ASSUMED, it's taken for granted. We all love ourselves from the getgo. We all seek our own well-being, we look out for our comforts and our pleasures, we avoid what hurts us. The idea that we need to learn to love ourselves is ridiculous. We're selfish to begin with. We're being told to love others with that same solicitude we bring to our own happiness.

Quit trying to make what is really complex simple.What is all this? All this pop-psychology about "loving ourselves"? What's next? we need to build our "self-esteem"? God wants us to be rich?You don't seem to understand anything about the religion you profess, Jar. Christianity at its best at least tries to take into account the facts of the world, the horrible suffering of the world. What it tells you to do is to take up your Cross, man. There's none of this bullshit about "loving yourself." What's to love?

That's a good statement of the gospel Iano. I'll go with that. Sorry to have contributed to taking the thread off track.

Faith, maybe there was a reason it was included specifically in the Great Commandments.If you listen to most Christians they talk about how they are fallen, how they are sinners, how they are worse than whale snot.We Jesus says you are wrong. Jesus says here's how it is folk. First you gotta love yourself. You need to know that you are worthy, you are beautiful, you are lovable. Once you understand that, look at your neighbors. Try to do what's right. Treat them the way you, this wonderfful glorious saved beautiful lovable person wants to be treated.Do those two things and guess what? That's loving GOD.It really is that simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If you want a history-of-the-world answer:God creates man. He gives him "free will" - i.e. the knowledge of good and evil - but with that comes the responsibility to do good and not do evil.Time passes. Whole lotta evil goin' on. God decides to cleanse the world with a flood. Those who do good are saved and those who do evil are destroyed.Time passes. God gives His chosen people the Ten Commandments - Readers' Digest version: Love God and love thy neighbour as thyself. The commandments tell us what God wants us to do (and not do).Time passes. A priestly caste arises and "amplifies" the law, partly to clarify certain day-to-day situations and partly to insure their own income (the food sacrifices being largely for the benefit of the priests).Time passes. The letter of the law (through the priests) becomes more prominent than the spirit of the law. (Review: the spirit of the law = love God and love thy neighbour as thyself.)God decides, "These people need a tune-up. I'll take on human form, show them that I understand where they're coming from and tell them, face-to-face, what I expect of them."Good news! Jesus is born!Jesus brings the message: love God and love thy neighbour as thyself. Treat others as you would have them treat you. Treat everybody as you would treat Him. He explains how the judgment will work: those who do right will be saved and those who do wrong will be condemned.Paul gets confused. He emphasizes "belief" in Jesus and de-emphasizes what Jesus said: that we must do unto others....Time passes. Professing "Christians" become Paulians, thinking they can be saved by trumpting their "beliefs" instead of doing what Jesus told them to do and what God has wanted them to do since the beginning.Time passes. Iano starts a topic on EvC....

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Yeah, the nonbeliever here knows more about what it's about than all these self-named Christians. Yes, take up your cross, count yourself dead to this world, and follow Him. Be willing to die for Him. In fact He explicitly commanded us to hate ourselves, yet this is denied by today's breed of self-indulgent pseudo-Christians.