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Author Topic:   Please help me understand about rape: power or sex?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 14 (590111)
11-06-2010 1:46 AM


I've heard both arguments. And right now I don't know what to think. Since I've never had the urge to rape, I don't really know which way to lean.
Is rape about power or sex?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2010 2:31 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 3 by Larni, posted 11-06-2010 5:57 AM Taz has not replied
 Message 5 by frako, posted 11-06-2010 11:27 AM Taz has replied
 Message 7 by bluescat48, posted 11-06-2010 12:54 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 8 by Panda, posted 11-07-2010 7:14 PM Taz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 2 of 14 (590113)
11-06-2010 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-06-2010 1:46 AM


Or there are different strokes for different folks. There need not be a single motivation for all acts of rape.
The argument that it is always about "power" seems to be flawed unless there is some conclusive demonstration.
After all, we know:
(1) Men want sex.
(2) Men sometimes commit violence to get what they want.
It would therefore be absurd to suppose that no man has ever committed an act of violence in order to obtain sex.
There is the (untrue) story of the bank robber who was asked "Why do you rob banks?"
His answer --- "Because that's where the money is".
On the same basis it is not inconceivable or even unlikely that a sociopath might rape a woman simply because he wanted to have sex with her.
On the other hand, there are doubtless men who hate women, and rape would be a perfect expression of this feeling.
So I'm not sure that there is a single answer.
One can cry for joy or grief or pain or in the presence of beauty, one's toes can curl in orgasm or in embarrassment --- the underlying feelings that we have don't have a one-to-one mapping onto the external forms of their expression.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 3 of 14 (590118)
11-06-2010 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-06-2010 1:46 AM


I reckon it is a combination of both.
Rape can be used as a tool for dominance and if the dominator selects rape as the tool it is most likely for a sexual reason (I know that sounds pretty obvious).
If the would be dominator has no sexual arousal at the time rape should not occur.
But then again the dominator may consciously select rape as a tool to dominate as it is devastating to the victim as dominators know that.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 14 (590156)
11-06-2010 11:12 AM


But keep the order straight, it is rape, pillage and only then burn.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

  
frako
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 5 of 14 (590160)
11-06-2010 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-06-2010 1:46 AM


both and evan a fetish too, some people actualy want to be raped lol though i dunno if you can call it rape if they want to be raped.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-06-2010 1:46 AM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Taz, posted 11-06-2010 12:25 PM frako has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 6 of 14 (590165)
11-06-2010 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by frako
11-06-2010 11:27 AM


Frako, are you trying to tell us something about yourself?

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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 7 of 14 (590169)
11-06-2010 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-06-2010 1:46 AM


It is about both as are its three cousins, which make the 4 cornerstones of idiocy in all:
Sex, Religion, War & Politics all are power over sanity.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 8 of 14 (590358)
11-07-2010 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
11-06-2010 1:46 AM


It is just one more success in our seemingly endless search for different ways to hurt each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 11-06-2010 1:46 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 9 of 14 (590493)
11-08-2010 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Panda
11-07-2010 7:14 PM


Some actually enjoy it:
And some times it could be beneficial:
- Oni
Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 10 of 14 (655100)
03-07-2012 10:38 AM


I actually forgot I started this thread. Found this while I was searching.
I'm still having trouble understanding rape. Why do people rape? Where's the urge from?

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Percy, posted 03-07-2012 10:51 AM Taz has replied
 Message 12 by Rahvin, posted 03-07-2012 11:20 AM Taz has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 11 of 14 (655102)
03-07-2012 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
03-07-2012 10:38 AM


How would you define the type of rape you're wondering about? Forcible intercourse with an unambiguously unwilling victim? In unambiguous circumstances not involving a change of mind? Where the perpetrator was unknown to the victim?
If it's something like that then I guess I have no insight and no comment. I'd have more to say about more ambiguous circumstances.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 12 of 14 (655104)
03-07-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
03-07-2012 10:38 AM


I actually forgot I started this thread. Found this while I was searching.
I'm still having trouble understanding rape. Why do people rape? Where's the urge from?
The causes of rape are complicated, just as all human behavior is complicated.
One of the first things to understand is that sexual gratification can come from different sources to different people. We all tend to laugh at some of the weirder fetishes out on the net, but there really are people who derive sexual gratification from what most would consider nonsexual activity. Some people are sexually aroused by popping balloons. And then there are the more icky ones, like urination, defecation, even vomit.
The BDSM community includes a whole spectrum of fetishes - some get off on dehumanizing their partners or being dehumanized, or on inflicting or receiving pain, sometimes severe pain. Some are aroused by crying, or screaming, or struggling, or simply controlling another human being, or making them helpless through bondage.
Clearly, many of these activities aren't actually harmful when practiced by consenting adults. But before tackling rape, understand that the actual mechanics of intercourse are not at all the only way to derive sexual satisfaction. Some rapists don't even perform intercourse - they rape with an object. They get off on the act without genital stimulation, whether because of an inability to perform (unable to get an erection, or the very rare female rapist) or simply because that's not their primary source of gratification.
But imagine a person who can only receive sexual gratification by inflicting pain, dehumanizing his victim, and only feels powerful in his life when he takes power from another individual through violent force. Now imagine that this individual is more moved by these violent impulses than by moral considerations. You have likely just imagined a serial rapist. Most people don't become rapists even if they do feel aroused by violence and force because they can still receive sexual gratification from more normal sex, and/or can find partners who receive gratification through consensual submission or receiving pain. More importantly, most people are sufficiently moved by moral considerations (and the threat of imprisonment and being socially ostracized) that they are repulsed by the idea of actually doing what they fantasize about to an unwilling victim.
Rape fantasy is real, as Frako mentioned, and it's actually very common...but there's usually some rather large differences between rape fantasy and actual-factual rape. The first is that in a fantasy you have total control, while in a real rape the victim has no control. Even when trying to role-play a rape fantasy, the "victim" is only pretending to not want it, and can stop the activity at any time (so long as the individuals are not idiots and have a safe-word or other signal set), and rules are typically set beforehand to prevent real harm. In fantasy, the "victim" typically imagines being so desirable to her assailant that he cannot control himself and ravishes her in a fit of passion...which of course is not at all like real rape.
But in addition to those sorts of considerations, there are other forms of rape. "Consent" can be given by an individual too young to actually give consent - and this is more than enough for many statutory rapists to rationalize moral justification for the sex. Sometimes consent is given by an adult...and then withdrawn midway through intercourse. Obviously intercourse should stop immediately, but in the middle of sex, some individuals refuse to stop, occasionally becoming violently frustrated if their former-partner-now-victim continues to resist.
All rape is monstrous, but not all rapists are the same monster. It's a complicated behavior.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 03-07-2012 10:38 AM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 14 (655105)
03-07-2012 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Percy
03-07-2012 10:51 AM


Zombie apocalypse. 3 men stumbles into a couple of girls. Rape.
Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Percy, posted 03-07-2012 10:51 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 14 of 14 (669569)
07-31-2012 4:53 AM


So... I recently took the plunge to satisfy my endeavor to understand rape. Hard for me to admit this, actually, but I recently asked a gay friend to...
Most terrifying experience ever, not to mention the pain. How the hell do gay men... ah fuck it...
Anyway, our experiment has just reinforced my hatred for sex offenders 10 folds. I say put them all on their own island.

  
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