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Author Topic:   Man in gods image... How ?
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 16 of 82 (406710)
06-21-2007 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by shiloh
06-21-2007 3:22 PM


Who?
Also Jesus is the image of God - "If you have seen me you have seen the Father."
Unfortunately, we have neither autographed piccies, or the barest description of Jesus' appearance, so looks like we can`t use that line of enquiry. Nay, nary a painting, stone inscription, not even a hint from contemporaries. No ochre dabbles in caves or tombs,no surviving copies of the early Jerusalem Times, not even a wanted poster. Ostraca abound, but Jesus never made the cut (pun). I guess artists and scribes were relatively common, but no one thought to record a guy going around restoring the dead, curing lepers, even showing how to remove pig-infestation in the district. What does it take to make the news?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by shiloh, posted 06-21-2007 3:22 PM shiloh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by shiloh, posted 06-22-2007 2:29 AM Nighttrain has replied
 Message 29 by LudoRephaim, posted 07-13-2007 12:04 AM Nighttrain has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 17 of 82 (406727)
06-22-2007 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by rgb
06-30-2006 8:54 PM


I have to admit that this is a very unique idea, one that I admittedly haven't encountered until today.
It reminded me of this:
The heart of Man is not compound of lies,
but draws some wisdom from the only Wise,
and still recalls him. Although now long estranged,
Man is not wholly lost nor wholly changed.
Dis-graced he may be, yet is not de-throned,
and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned:
Man, Sub-creator, the refracted Light
through whom is splintered from a single White
to many hues, and endlessly combined
in living shapes that move from mind to mind.
Though all the crannies of the world we filled
with Elves and Goblins, though we dared to build
Gods and their houses out of dark and light,
and sowed the seed of dragons-'twas our right
(used or misused). That right has not decayed:
we make still by the law in which we're made.

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Replies to this message:
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shiloh
Junior Member (Idle past 6116 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-21-2007


Message 18 of 82 (406732)
06-22-2007 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Nighttrain
06-21-2007 10:47 PM


Re: Who?
I was not talking about his appearance but His life's work and character. He did only those things that the Father showed him and all He did pleased the Father.
If you understood the post in which you quoted me you should have understood that. When we image God we reflect his ways and His will, and thereby honor Him.
Furthermore, as if a picture of Jesus really matters in light of our spiritual problems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Nighttrain, posted 06-21-2007 10:47 PM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Nighttrain, posted 06-22-2007 6:26 AM shiloh has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 19 of 82 (406748)
06-22-2007 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by shiloh
06-22-2007 2:29 AM


Re: Who?
Furthermore, as if a picture of Jesus really matters in light of our spiritual problems.
Weeeel, a picture might go a long way to proving the guy really existed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by shiloh, posted 06-22-2007 2:29 AM shiloh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by shiloh, posted 06-22-2007 1:20 PM Nighttrain has replied

  
shiloh
Junior Member (Idle past 6116 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-21-2007


Message 20 of 82 (406795)
06-22-2007 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Nighttrain
06-22-2007 6:26 AM


Re: Who?
Please,
I doubt that a picture would really help you - people like you who act as if everything in life needs to be PROVED in a certain way would just find some way to doubt the picture. And we would end up having a thousand year debate on it. People like you look for absolute answers to everthing when all that may be necessary is a reasonable probability. You don't really want things in the bible to be reconciled you just gravitate towards finding fault. Whats funny is you don't really live life on proof - you make descisions every day on experience couple with infrence and still get it wrong somtimes.
This why a picture might NOT "go a long way in proving whether Jesus really existed."
I dont think you really understand the nature of evidence in a historical sense.
I also doubt that you really understand the nature of proof. How you go about proving one thing may not be how one goes about proving another.
I don't know many people whether atheist or not that still believe that Jesus never existed.
If this is your only response to my post, which is off the topic of the image issue then I'll take that as if you do not have anything else to say about that.
Thanks for your responses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Nighttrain, posted 06-22-2007 6:26 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Nighttrain, posted 06-24-2007 2:55 AM shiloh has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 21 of 82 (407099)
06-24-2007 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by shiloh
06-22-2007 1:20 PM


Re: Who?
Also Jesus is the image of God - "If you have seen me you have seen the Father."
Instead of hand-waving and moving goal-posts, why don`t you try READING your Bible? What part of 'seen' don`t you understand? Philip makes it clear what he was asking.
Christians like to cover up the fact that no writer covered the most basic of questions asked by those who never lived in Jerusalem or Galilee, and consequently never had the chance to see Jesus, i.e.. 'What did He look like?' Would you accept proselytising from someone who said they knew Jesus, but couldn`t describe Him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by shiloh, posted 06-22-2007 1:20 PM shiloh has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by shiloh, posted 06-24-2007 4:33 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
shiloh
Junior Member (Idle past 6116 days)
Posts: 28
Joined: 06-21-2007


Message 22 of 82 (407105)
06-24-2007 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Nighttrain
06-24-2007 2:55 AM


Re: Who?
First off since christians believed that Jesus was God in the flesh and the OT said not to make any graven image of anthing in heaven I think they had serious doubts about describing or issuing a portrait. More importantly your wish is irrelevent to the purpose of Christ coming.
It is not reading that troubles you but understanding. Read John 12:44-50.
What they saw was His character, His testimony, and His works. The Father is who He represented and the Father has no form He is Spirit.
Read the context: Jesus ask "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not KNOW me. What? They should have known what He looked like -no He is talking about knowing Him in a personal and trusting manner reguarding Him being the Messiah - all of which was prophesied in the OT regauring His lifes purpose and mission. Take the scales off your eyes. The testimony of Christ's life, character, works, and ressurection is enough. We don't need your arbitrary desries for proof in the form of some picture or physical description of Jesus.
Read Matt. 13:11-23.
"Awake you who sleep, Arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light."
"Let your light show shine before men that they see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven" - I think Jesus was the Example. Duh!
"Thomas, because you have seen me you believe. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe..." Jn. 20:29-31.
Also Read John 17 particularly v.6-8
Also if you have to have a description - here is one in Isaiah 52:14; 53:2-3.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Nighttrain, posted 06-24-2007 2:55 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 27 by anastasia, posted 07-07-2007 6:00 PM shiloh has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 23 of 82 (407106)
06-24-2007 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zucadragon
06-30-2006 6:00 PM


zucadragon writes:
But really, the point is this.. Perhaps this skill, to build to create beyond what is in reach, beyond what we can do ourselves.. Perhaps this creation ability is what makes us gods image ?
To put it another way, perhaps because our ancestors became tool makers, rather than just tool users, they then developed the idea that the things around them that they themselves had not made were also the product of "intelligent design" and were made by other makers, and started to invent creator gods, makers of things, in their own image.

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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2478 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 24 of 82 (407107)
06-24-2007 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Dr Adequate
06-22-2007 1:23 AM


The heart of Man is not compound of lies,
but draws some wisdom from the only Wise,...
Sounds familiar. A theist who believes that our right to fill the world with Elves, Goblins and Dragons has "not decayed", and loves writing traditional style verse that rhymes and scans, and writes it well. Tolkein?

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 Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2007 1:23 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 25 of 82 (408036)
06-30-2007 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by shiloh
06-24-2007 4:33 AM


Re: Who?
What they saw was His character, His testimony, and His works. The Father is who He represented and the Father has no form He is Spirit.
Typical Christian flim-flam. I spoke of those OUTSIDE Jerusalem. Strangers who were given the usual spiel, but never saw the piccies in the Jerusalem Post. No good quoting chapter and verse unless you can prove the lines were in the autographs. Too many interpolations and omissions in the Bible and companion literature to trust a believer.

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kbertsche
Member (Idle past 2132 days)
Posts: 1427
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Joined: 05-10-2007


Message 26 of 82 (409138)
07-07-2007 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zucadragon
06-30-2006 6:00 PM


In todays society, the image of god in man has usually pointed towards either the body or the mind.. I was thinking for a bit and I'd like to add another possibility... Creation itself as a skill, or ability if you will.
Dorothy Sayers wrote an interesting book, The Mind of the Maker, where she makes a similar point. She suggests that creativity is at the heart of the "Image of God".

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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5953 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 27 of 82 (409156)
07-07-2007 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by shiloh
06-24-2007 4:33 AM


Re: Who?
shiloh writes:
First off since christians believed that Jesus was God in the flesh and the OT said not to make any graven image of anthing in heaven I think they had serious doubts about describing or issuing a portrait. More importantly your wish is irrelevent to the purpose of Christ coming.
Well, since the earliest Christians had quite a few views on whether they accepted the OT, many of them weren't Jews, and many of them didn't agree that Jesus was divine at all, that might be hard to prove.
At the same time I doubt that anyone who actually dealt with Jesus on a daily basis had occasion to paint a portrait.

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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 28 of 82 (410040)
07-12-2007 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by shiloh
06-21-2007 3:22 PM


Hello there
hello there Shiloh
Also Jesus is the Image of God
Here are some good verses that support that;
The God of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the Image of God. = 2 Corinthians 4:4
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all Creation. Colossians 1:15, reffering to Jesus (see context, Colossians 1:1-23
Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 29 of 82 (410050)
07-13-2007 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Nighttrain
06-21-2007 10:47 PM


kinda late, but
I know this is about the image of God, but I have to answer some of this;
no one thought to record a guy going around restoring the dead, curing lepers, even showing how to remove pig infestation in the district.
are all people who supposidly preform supernatural acts miracles on earth make the headlines? (ie every faith healer (not just the famous ones), all working exorcists of the Roman catholic Church and other Christian demoninations, everybody ever to recieve stigmata, etc etc) as well as those who get their (a few "supposed") powers from other faiths (some Buddist monks, tribal Shamans,etc)? Are all videotaped?
BTW: are there contemporary pictures or even paintings and sculptures of Herodotus, Homer the Blind Poet, Flavius Josephus, The old man of la Chappelle (French Neanderthal), Thales of Miletus (accurately predicted solar eclipse (Norris McWhirter's Book of Historical Records, page 90), St Augustine, Justin Martyr, Spartacus, Hannibal of Carthage, Herod the Great, Porus the giant (who fought Alexander the Great at the battle of Hydaspes), Bucephalus (Alexander the Great's warhorse), Zoraster the Prophet, Gautama Buddha, Archimedes, Pythagoras of Samos, Pytheas of Massila, Aristarchus of Samos, Muhammad the prophet, Hipparchus, Ptolemy (ie the 2nd century astronomer), Roman Historian Tacticus, ...
And please dont reply with a bunch of mythical beings and creatures (Thor, Poseidon, Fenris the wolf, Pegasu, etc) and ask for contemporaneous images or sculptures; unlike those Jesus is himself accepted by the majority of Historians to have actually existed. Try the College textbook The West: Encounters and Transformations; concise edition By Brian Levack (University of Texas at Austin) Edward Muir (orthwestern University) Michael Maas (Rice University) And Meredith Veldman (Louisina State University (see pages xxxix and xl for backgrounds on each author)pages 111-113 (also notice list of books discussing Jesus written by Historians on page 113), The Illustrated Atlas of Jewish Civilization: 4000 years of History by Martin Gilbert and Josephine Bacon, pages 41-43, and both The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel and The Case for the Ressurection of Jesus By Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona.
see also wikipedia article on Jesus.
Edited by LudoRephaim, : sumthinoruder

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 30 of 82 (410054)
07-13-2007 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by LudoRephaim
07-13-2007 12:04 AM


see also
see also
Norris Mcwhirter's Book of Historical Records, page 42.
The Holy Land:Guide to the Archeological sites and Historical Monuments. byFabio Bourbon and Enrico Lavagno, Translated into english by Richard Pierce, page 11.
Jesus - Wikipedia

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
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