Checking for validity of supposed early christian gay marriage rite

Hey Taz.Considering the replies and posts on this thread, combined with the teachings of the Bible and orthodox Christianity, i remain highly skeptical of the above claims. Just look at these tidbits from the early Church Fathers;"It is well that they should be cut off from the lusts of the world, since "Every lust wars against the spirit" and "neither fornicators, nor Homosexuals...Will inherit the kingdom of God."
Clement of Rome"Some polluted themselves by lying with males."
Aristides"You shall not commit adultrey; you shall not commit pederasty."
Didache"The Greeks, oh king, follow debased practices in intecourse with males, or with mothers, sisters and daughters. Yet they, in turn, impute their monstrous impurity to the Christians."
Aristides"they do not abstain even from males, males with males committing shocking abominations, outraging all the noblest and comeleist bodies in all sorts of ways."
Athenagoras"The Christian man confines himself to the female sex."
Tertullian"The coupling of two males is a shameful thing."
Tertullian"The whole earth has now become full of forniction and wickedness. I admire the ancient legislators of the Romans. These men detesed effeminacy of conduct. The giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the most extreme penalty."
Clement of Alexandria"Pederasty is condemned by the bararians. However, by the Romans it is honored with certain privledges. In fact, they try to collect herds of boys like grazing horses."
TatianThe ancient Church fathers viewed pederasty in the same league, though as the above statements mak clear, sex between two males period was abominable. For these sayings and others on pederasty see the book "A Dictionary of early Christian beliefs" by David W. Bercot (editor).Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Supreme Court of the US does not have 8 justices. It has had 6, 7, 9, 10, and FDR tried to make the maximum 15. It has been 9 since 1869.Further, it is in their power to affect thousands of people. In the Dred Scott case they affirmed slavery. In Brown v. Topeka they destroyed segregation. All due to issues of constitutionality, which thanks to the Marbury v. Madison case is their prime directive. You also need a final court for appeals, so even if they didn't decide on cases of constitutionality, their rulings on certain laws involved in certain cases set precedents that all lower judges may and do use, so their power is inherent.

Well, I'm skeptical of the christian homo-marriage rite claims, too. IT's just that I have quite a few gay friends who are also christians. They spend a lot of time trying to come up with "evidence" and excuses to reconcile their homosexuality with their faith. I'm neither gay nor christian and I feel for them. Seems to me like a waste of time trying to convince haters and bigots like nem_jug and his religion of hate to accept homosexuality with open arms.

I wouldn't say that Christians actually hate homosexuals; I am a Christian who is against homosexuality, but i dont hate gays. I've haven't read all of Nemmy's posts but I doubt he hates them to. To say Christianity is a religion of hate towards gays is like saying that Islam is a religion of hate towards Poeple who drink grape-wine, Christians and Jews, or that Judaism is a religion of hate towards pork eating. I've never seen a video of a Mullah saying "God hats Winos" or a Jew with a sign saying "Pork eaters BE DAMNED!!"You wouldn't say that Islam and Judaism are religions of hate?Some Christians do hate gays (some church in Topeka, Kansas has been famous for picketing the funerals of people who died from AIDS. I condemn such actions), but to say that all Christians hate gays is like saying that all Christians hate Liars, Adulterers, murderers, Sabbath reakers, etc. Christians are more likely to hate pedophiles than gays.Its not that Christians hate homosexuals, its just that (at least the more Bible-based, lest "progressive" Christians), they are forbidden by God to accept any sin. Not that they would forbid gays to enter the Church, but they would not allow gays to become a member unless they repented and come/come back to Christ.I dont have much time to debate such a topic encompassing not just religion but ethics/Progress/the Modern ethic/ etc. But I may respond when i can.BTW: I like your new avatar, but i miss the old one.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

LudoRephaim writes:

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I am a Christian who is against homosexuality, but i dont hate gays.

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Ah, yes..."Love the sinner, hate the sin."I don't hate you, I just hate what you do and don't want you to ever experience the joy of love.

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but to say that all Christians hate gays is like saying that all Christians hate Liars, Adulterers, murderers, Sabbath reakers, etc.

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So being gay is the same as lying, breaking marital vows, murdering people, and breaking the Sabbath. Is that what you're trying to say? Being gay is equivalent to murder?

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but they would not allow gays to become a member unless they repented and come/come back to Christ.

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"But they would not allow blacks to become a member unless they repented and come/come back to Christ."Should black people "repent"?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Wow.... you are one pathetic troll.

Rrhain Exclaimes: and... Ahhhh, such a cute phrase. But what about for lying?"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of GOOD CONVERSATION."Or Theft?"I don't hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of GETTING WHAT YOU WANT."Or Murder?"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of HUNTING THE MOST DANGEROUS PREY."Or Adultery?"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the JOY Of LOVE."Hmmm, sounds familiar...Or saying God's name in vain?"I dont hate you, i just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of FREEDOM OF SPEECH."Or Idolatry?"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of ARTISTIC LICENSE."Or worshipping other gods?"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of FREEDOM OF RELIGION."What about the dangers of Lust?"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of SEXUAL LIBERATION."What about Fornication? Beastiality? Incest? Pedophilia? Pornography? Looking onto women to Lust after them (Inner adultery)?Stop me if you've heard this before..."I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy OF LOVE."Seems you can phrase things out of proportion/context and good taste just to try to make the other person seem "Less Progressive" and "Wrong".Rrhain also spews forth: To me its not, but to God (Biblical), it seems that he punishes all sin the same way. Whether you steal a peppermint candy from a store or blow up a city, any sin leads to you having a big fire around without the marshmellows to roast for eternity. Interesting analogy. Do all gay people "look alike" to you?Rrhain also spits out upon thy hapless populace of Cyberspace: Im sorry, I wanted to ask this in the last section of this post, but, isn't the phrase supposed to be "African American" unless different continent/land of ethnic origin is otherwise?And do you think there are a "race" of Gay people? What continent did they come from? What religion, culture, history? Did they come from the south pole? How do they fit in the evolutionary history of man (are they part of HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS or are they a side branch of Modern Humans, a subspecies? Did they come from (gasp!), HOMO ERECTUS???!!BTW: Where in the Bible/Quran/Book of Shadows/Book of Mormon/Egyptian Book of the Dead/Necronomicon/Torah/Dianetics/Hesiod is it stated that being Black is a sin?Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Hey Catholic Scientist I thought trolling was different from what Rrhain wrote. What is all entailed by "Trolling"?

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

LudoRephaim responds to me:

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of GOOD CONVERSATION."

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Who are you to tell me what "good conversation" means? Don't I get to determine that for myself?

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Or Theft?

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So being gay is equivalent to being a thief? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I don't hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of GETTING WHAT YOU WANT."

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Who are you to tell me "what I want"? Don't I get to determine that for myself?

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Or Murder?

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So being gay is equivalent to murder? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of HUNTING THE MOST DANGEROUS PREY."

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Who are you to tell me what "the most dangerous prey" is? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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Or Adultery?

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So being gay is equivalent to infidelity? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the JOY Of LOVE."

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Who are you to tell me what "the joy of love" is? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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Or saying God's name in vain?

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So being gay is equivalent to cursing? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, i just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of FREEDOM OF SPEECH."

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Who are you to tell me what my speech should be? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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Or Idolatry?

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So being gay is equivalent to idolatry? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of ARTISTIC LICENSE."

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Who are you to tell me what my tastes in art should be? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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Or worshipping other gods?

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So being gay is equivalent to religion? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of FREEDOM OF RELIGION."

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Who are you to tell me what my religion should be? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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What about the dangers of Lust?

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So being gay is merely lust? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy of SEXUAL LIBERATION."

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Who are you to tell me how to engage my sexuality? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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What about Fornication? Beastiality? Incest? Pedophilia? Pornography? Looking onto women to Lust after them (Inner adultery)?

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So being gay is equivalent to fornication, bestiality, incest, pedophilia, pornography, and lustful thoughts? How does being gay do that while being straight does not? Be specific.

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"I dont hate you, I just hate what you do and dont want you to ever experience the joy OF LOVE."

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Who are you to tell me if I'm in love or not? Don't I get to decide that for myself?

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Seems you can phrase things out of proportion/context and good taste just to try to make the other person seem "Less Progressive" and "Wrong".

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Maybe. The problem is that nothing you have said passes muster except to entrench homophobia, equating being gay with everything under the sun except being straight.

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Being Gay is equivalent to Murder?

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To me its not, but to God (Biblical), it seems that he punishes all sin the same way.

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And yet, the Bible doesn't really say anything about homosexuality as we understand it.

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Interesting analogy. Do all gay people "look alike" to you?

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(*chuckle*)Nice try. That's my question to you.

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Im sorry, I wanted to ask this in the last section of this post, but, isn't the phrase supposed to be "African American" unless different continent/land of ethnic origin is otherwise?

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So instead of answering the question, you want to argue semantics? Let's try again, shall we? This time, let's use my exact words rather than the re-write you did:Should black people "repent"?If you're really that concerned on semantics, check the spelling and punctuation. I wrote it that way for a reason.

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And do you think there are a "race" of Gay people?

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Since "race" is not well-defined, I don't really know how to answer that question. The simple fact is that there are gay people. Why do the rights of gay people depend upon why or how?

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What religion, culture, history?

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"Religion"? Since when did physical characteristics become equivalent to "religion"? As for culture and history, certain there is a culture and history to gay people. Culture and history automatically come into being when humans form societies. Gay people have formed societies and, since they are human, that necessarily means there is culture and history associated with those societies.Are you denying this?

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Did they come from the south pole?

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Since no humans comes from Antarctica, the answer to that would be no. Your point is?

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How do they fit in the evolutionary history of man (are they part of HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS or are they a side branch of Modern Humans, a subspecies? Did they come from (gasp!), HOMO ERECTUS???!!

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Being humans, gay people come from the same place as straight people. What's your point?

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BTW: Where in the Bible/Quran/Book of Shadows/Book of Mormon/Egyptian Book of the Dead/Necronomicon/Torah/Dianetics/Hesiod is it stated that being Black is a sin?

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That's my question to you. If it's a crap argument when applied to race, why does it suddenly gain legitimacy when applied to sexual orientation?Surely you aren't about to say that you haven't heard of certain sects who claim that the "curse of Ham" was dark skin, yes? You are aware that the Mormon church held this belief up until about the 1970s. You were not allowed to be black and Mormon.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Oh god, please don't get him to start rambling again on how allowing gay people to have rights will slipery slope into people marrying dogs and cats. Actually, I do say that as well. Let's face it. You don't want to admit it's "hate" because we as a society have demonized the word "hate" enough that nobody wants to associate with it. Current members of the KKK as well as neo-nazis claim that they don't "hate" people of other races just like how you people claim that you don't "hate" gay people. But in my book trying to limit the rights of a whole specific group of people IS "hate". Never said all christians hate gays. I said christianity is a religion of hate. Can you actually think of a moment in history when christianity doesn't demonize a group of people? Used to be Jews, black slaves, American Indians, etc. As a matter of fact, I'm surprised christianity hasn't ran out of people to demonize yet. Yeah, just like how god put the different races on different continents so therefore he must not have wanted the races to intermarry? What new avatar? What old avatar? Been using this same one since forever. Also been busy with new career so I haven't been on much.

Taz responds to LudoRephaim:

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I like your new avatar, but i miss the old one.

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What new avatar? What old avatar? Been using this same one since forever.

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I know that it's off-topic, but didn't you used to have an avatar of the Tasmanian Devil from the Warner Bros. cartoons? Am I thinking of someone else?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Yeah, and that was like a year ago.

Rrhain ejaculates to thee; Me, no. God, however, IS Someone to tell you what those things are and how to live, that is if you believe in the Biblical God. My bad on not explaining well; HOMOSEXUALITY, i.e. HOMOSEXUAL ACTS (ie having sex with someone of same gender) is on par with the sins mentioned:Thou shalt not murder, steal, Lie, Worship other gods, commit idolatry, break the sabbath, covet thy neighbor's belongings and wife(s), adultery, take God's name in vain, dishonor your parents (Exodus 20:1-17)Dont have sex with close family members (incest), dont have sex with animals, and dont have man on man sex (Leviticus 18:1-30). Notice 18:22, one which you no doubt have either refused to accept and have tried to xplain away or ignore;""You shall not lie with a male as a woman; it is a abomination."The NCV hits it harder between the eyes;"It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."And if you break one commandment, you break them all (James 2:10-11). Oh yes, and the earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, Jews have horns (Moses no different!!), we are at the center of the universe, and Rats can magically be spawned out of non-living matter. If you take what you just wrote seriously, you are to Biblical scholarship what Ken Ham is to science. Trying to ignore or explain away the text shows that you dont take the text for what it says. If you feel the way you wrote, you should also make the same claim for Beastiality, incest and fornication, among other sins. If you were a real Bible scholar, you wouldn't read 21rst century fairy apologetics into a text written in a totally different setting and culture. Even Taz agrees that the text is talking about man on man sex. If you persue this line of junk, I will not respond to it, but pity you. Dont waste my time or that of others. I asked first. SEMANTICS IS EVERYTHING, my buddy! In order to be a legit progressive (a real progressive) you have to be in the movement 100%! No room for mavericks! Fight the system, man! Prisoner of the system! PRISONERS OF THE SYSTEM UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!BTW: The Bible mentions nothing about "Darker skined Homo Sappiens/Melanistically gifted" needing to repent of their blackness, so no they dont have to repent. I didn't say that; but if there is a "race" of gay people, they should at least have some different cultural/religious characteristics from other "races" of people; People from Africa differ from each other in religious followings, and largely do so with people from, say, South America. Perhaps a Shoggoth could assume human shape on the coldest continent... You broke a cardinal rule; To be progressive, you dont attack any religion unless that religion is Evangelical christianity!!!! How can you be a good follower of Michael Moore if you dont get this right? Don't bother Obama with your convervative vote! It would be anathema to true leftists!!!!!

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

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My bad on not explaining well; HOMOSEXUALITY, i.e. HOMOSEXUAL ACTS (ie having sex with someone of same gender) is on par with the sins mentioned:

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Thou shalt not murder, steal, Lie, Worship other gods, commit idolatry, break the sabbath, covet thy neighbor's belongings and wife(s), adultery, take God's name in vain, dishonor your parents (Exodus 20:1-17)

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Very curious then, isn't it, that the ten commandments don't say anything about homosexuality? If it's on par with those things, it oughta be in the same tablets as those things, don'tcha think? In fact, at least as far as you mention, it's not even in the same book.You say the bible calls it an "abomination" and "disgusting."What does it mean when the bible says "abomination?" Please cite authorities to support your conclusion.As far as the "disgusting" part is concerned, I kind of agree. I don't like to see that stuff. So what? There are a lot of things that are considerably more "disgusting," including bigotry.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Hi, Rrhain. Bull crap: black people could be Mormons since the beginning of the LDS Church. Joseph Smith baptized several black people (Elijah Abel is the only name I can think of). They weren't allowed the priesthood and several ordinances until 1978, but they could be Mormons.I have heard that the LDS Church was the first church in the USA to allow black ministers in front of white congregations, but I can't substantiate it.

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-BluejayDarwin loves you.