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Author Topic:   Man in gods image... How ?
Zucadragon
Member
Posts: 61
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006


Message 1 of 82 (327859)
06-30-2006 6:00 PM


In todays society, the image of god in man has usually pointed towards either the body or the mind.. I was thinking for a bit and I'd like to add another possibility... Creation itself as a skill, or ability if you will.
First of all, I have to say that I am new to this forum, and I'm not actually christian, but this popped into my mind and I figured it was worth a shot.. surely tell me if I'm stating anything really false here.
Half the people I asked this explained that our bodies are this image that is representative of god.. The other half speak of humans containing intelligence, which puts us above the animals..
Both I think arent true, first of all, why would our body, something so diverse and erm, ugly and frail and really not logical (if you look at nature, were very weak in body in comparison, without any real skills that define us).. So I'm stepping away from that one.
And the intelligence, I think that most people can agree by now that there are a lot of animals that can adapt beyond what they are used to, from a wolf in a new environment to a dolphin threatened by something new.. Some might not agree with this though, it doesnt really matter for the discussion, for now please assume that intelligence is not a trait that defines us as special... Or that really makes us gods image.
So what then ?
Imagine this, what can god do that we can do ??.. God can create, to bluntly put it, god can create lots.. But so can we, i've been looking around the internet, but apart from birds creating a nest and beavers creating a dam.. Still, these look more like programmed things (they know how to do it pretty much from birth). And the materials are always the same, what ever is available closeby is used.
Now we humans, we have searched, found, processed and created using techniques well beyond what our own bodies can do. Techniques half the world dont even understand.. But they come from thoughts and experiments.. We can trully create something out of nearly nothing (I say nearly, we can do a lot with little if needed, but we cant create out of nothing)..
But really, the point is this.. Perhaps this skill, to build to create beyond what is in reach, beyond what we can do ourselves.. Perhaps this creation ability is what makes us gods image ?
Edited by Zucadragon, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by rgb, posted 06-30-2006 8:54 PM Zucadragon has replied
 Message 8 by ramoss, posted 07-01-2006 12:10 PM Zucadragon has replied
 Message 23 by bluegenes, posted 06-24-2007 4:56 AM Zucadragon has not replied
 Message 26 by kbertsche, posted 07-07-2007 4:21 PM Zucadragon has not replied
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 12-03-2007 6:50 AM Zucadragon has not replied

  
Zucadragon
Member
Posts: 61
From: Netherlands
Joined: 06-28-2006


Message 2 of 82 (327869)
06-30-2006 6:19 PM


Erm, I dont know how this system works really, it has confused me so far.. But I think I'm supposed to say I think this is supposed to go to "Bible Study".. But I'm not sure ^^..

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AdminJar, posted 06-30-2006 6:44 PM Zucadragon has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 82 (327880)
06-30-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Zucadragon
06-30-2006 6:19 PM


So far you are doing fine. A few suggestions. First, would it be better if you moved the subject you want to discuss from the last paragraph to the first? Usually it's a good idea to start off with what you consider the subject, then move into why you believe that to be the case.
And welcome to EvC.
If you can, consider editing the original message and then just post a response here and I'll take another look.

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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by Zucadragon, posted 06-30-2006 6:19 PM Zucadragon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 4 by Zucadragon, posted 06-30-2006 7:21 PM AdminJar has not replied

      
    Zucadragon
    Member
    Posts: 61
    From: Netherlands
    Joined: 06-28-2006


    Message 4 of 82 (327890)
    06-30-2006 7:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by AdminJar
    06-30-2006 6:44 PM


    and I have done so ^^.. I found the rules by the way... So I'm going to look through those a bit aswell... But yeah, thanks.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by AdminJar, posted 06-30-2006 6:44 PM AdminJar has not replied

      
    AdminJar
    Inactive Member


    Message 5 of 82 (327891)
    06-30-2006 7:31 PM


    Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

      
    rgb
    Inactive Member


    Message 6 of 82 (327908)
    06-30-2006 8:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Zucadragon
    06-30-2006 6:00 PM


    Zucadragon writes
    quote:
    In todays society, the image of god in man has usually pointed towards either the body or the mind.. I was thinking for a bit and I'd like to add another possibility... Creation itself as a skill, or ability if you will.
    Remember that in Genesis God created man from His own image during creation. In other words, a lot of things have happenned since that might have altered the image that was put here on Earth.
    quote:
    Both I think arent true, first of all, why would our body, something so diverse and erm, ugly and frail and really not logical (if you look at nature, were very weak in body in comparison, without any real skills that define us).. So I'm stepping away from that one.
    While there vague descriptions in the bible of how people worked and toiled back in the days, we really have no idea how they might have been different than us. Remember that the Fall had made everything begin to slowly deteriorate. What we have today as a typical human might not be anywhere near what the original humans were.
    quote:
    And the intelligence, I think that most people can agree by now that there are a lot of animals that can adapt beyond what they are used to, from a wolf in a new environment to a dolphin threatened by something new.. Some might not agree with this though, it doesnt really matter for the discussion, for now please assume that intelligence is not a trait that defines us as special... Or that really makes us gods image.
    I don't see how your descriptions of dolphins and such have anything to do with human intelligence or consciousness.
    quote:
    But really, the point is this.. Perhaps this skill, to build to create beyond what is in reach, beyond what we can do ourselves.. Perhaps this creation ability is what makes us gods image ?
    I have to admit that this is a very unique idea, one that I admittedly haven't encountered until today.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Zucadragon, posted 06-30-2006 6:00 PM Zucadragon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 7 by Zucadragon, posted 07-01-2006 8:52 AM rgb has not replied
     Message 17 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-22-2007 1:23 AM rgb has not replied

      
    Zucadragon
    Member
    Posts: 61
    From: Netherlands
    Joined: 06-28-2006


    Message 7 of 82 (327932)
    07-01-2006 8:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 6 by rgb
    06-30-2006 8:54 PM


    quote from rgb
    quote:
    Remember that in Genesis God created man from His own image during creation. In other words, a lot of things have happenned since that might have altered the image that was put here on Earth.
    and
    While there vague descriptions in the bible of how people worked and toiled back in the days, we really have no idea how they might have been different than us. Remember that the Fall had made everything begin to slowly deteriorate. What we have today as a typical human might not be anywhere near what the original humans were.
    The deteriation isnt so much a fact, but if we are or arent deteriating in any way.. The fact remains that we are changing, humanity is.. A man from the past would have trouble living in todays world, as would a man of today have trouble in the past. If this is positive or negatice is really hard to say in my eyes, we might have lost certain connection and at the same we might have made new ones (connections aiming at the original image of gods creation)
    And the wild diversity in human beings found today makes it really hard to point out any trait that is seen as original..
    Am I making sense here ??. If not, then I'll try this part again, lets continue though.
    quote:
    I don't see how your descriptions of dolphins and such have anything to do with human intelligence or consciousness.
    Well, I was trying to make a point towards intelligence not being a trait only humans posess.. Even though in degrees of intelligence, I easily say that humans stand above the rest.
    I guess such a statement would be up to debate, and hard to defend seeing that most information on animal intelligence and reaction is wel.. Incomplete. Assumptions are made but no real means have been to found to really validate any of them.
    But anyways, simply said, I was trying to remove intelligence as a unique skill present in mankind.
    quote:
    I have to admit that this is a very unique idea, one that I admittedly haven't encountered until today.
    In perspective, I guess this one can actually be researched, or observed, we know man creates and the only thing stopping it from really being a unique skill presented to man alone, is finding an animal that has the same skill.
    Edited by Zucadragon, : improving some grammar mistakes I found

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by rgb, posted 06-30-2006 8:54 PM rgb has not replied

      
    ramoss
    Member (Idle past 613 days)
    Posts: 3228
    Joined: 08-11-2004


    Message 8 of 82 (327989)
    07-01-2006 12:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Zucadragon
    06-30-2006 6:00 PM


    Well, the Jewish interpretation is that the 'spirit' of man is similar to the 'spirit' of God. God has no form per say, but, like man, has a 'personality' (to lack a better term). It is an attempt by the early writers of the bible to seperate man from the rest of the animals.
    The jewish interpretation is very much on the 'spirtual/mind/personalty'
    level.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Zucadragon, posted 06-30-2006 6:00 PM Zucadragon has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 9 by Zucadragon, posted 07-01-2006 3:02 PM ramoss has not replied

      
    Zucadragon
    Member
    Posts: 61
    From: Netherlands
    Joined: 06-28-2006


    Message 9 of 82 (328031)
    07-01-2006 3:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 8 by ramoss
    07-01-2006 12:10 PM


    quote:
    Well, the Jewish interpretation is that the 'spirit' of man is similar to the 'spirit' of God. God has no form per say, but, like man, has a 'personality' (to lack a better term). It is an attempt by the early writers of the bible to seperate man from the rest of the animals.
    The jewish interpretation is very much on the 'spirtual/mind/personalty'
    level.
    Well basically, if god is the creator of everything, then theres a bit of god in everything (some believe that the world and the laws are supported on the power of god).. If theres bits of god in everything (spiritual I mean ofcourse) then you can easily say that you have some of gods spirit,power,whatever.
    All in all, its not a good way to look at it, because its too much of a factor that can be twisted towards whatever you want it to mean... Then it would just be waiting for something that 'might' be defined as special, and it could be called part of gods spirit.
    Edited by Zucadragon, : heh, just edited a bit to make it erm, less chaotic.

    This message is a reply to:
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    tad askew
    Inactive Member


    Message 10 of 82 (328294)
    07-02-2006 3:02 PM


    I was reading somewhere(not sure where) that the human ability to imagine is what sets us apart from the rest of the animals. Beavers build dams but do they imagine them or is it instinct. We build building but we imagine them, plan them, change them.

    Replies to this message:
     Message 11 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 5:02 PM tad askew has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 395 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 11 of 82 (328320)
    07-02-2006 5:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by tad askew
    07-02-2006 3:02 PM


    There are examples though of animals "imagining" things, from examples of tool making to problem solving to artistic expression. Look at the various behaviors of the Bower Birds, or problem solving of a squirrel, or tool making of various apes.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by tad askew, posted 07-02-2006 3:02 PM tad askew has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 12 by tad askew, posted 07-02-2006 9:01 PM jar has not replied

      
    tad askew
    Inactive Member


    Message 12 of 82 (328356)
    07-02-2006 9:01 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by jar
    07-02-2006 5:02 PM


    Although i dont know if i believe that it is imagination that sets us apart, the question would be how do you define imagination.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by jar, posted 07-02-2006 5:02 PM jar has not replied

      
    LudoRephaim
    Member (Idle past 5084 days)
    Posts: 651
    From: Jareth's labyrinth
    Joined: 03-12-2006


    Message 13 of 82 (328585)
    07-03-2006 2:42 PM


    Image deo
    In the ancient near east the Kings where sometimes said to be the image of a certain god, giving him divine authortity (See page 14 of "The Jewish Study Bible" n commentary section on Gen 1:26-28 )Genesis here seems to show that despite mesopotamian ideas, all humans where in the image of God (Yahweh)and had divine authority over creation, with animals and other critters as subjects. In order to rule such a creation, you have to be smart enough to do so, which we are (humans are still unrivaled in intellectual ability)
    on page 129 of "Science & FAith: Freinds or Foes?" by C. John Collins, he states that, based on the evidence that preceeded before it (pages 124-129) than man being made in the "image of God"means that we humans are an Anology of Yahweh. Although few of the reasons he believes this are probably not very good (a will which allows man to choose what pleases him. My Pekingese dog has that!!!)A lot seems good.

    "The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

      
    Zucadragon
    Member
    Posts: 61
    From: Netherlands
    Joined: 06-28-2006


    Message 14 of 82 (329631)
    07-07-2006 1:54 PM


    I appologise, but right now I do not have the time to come her and discuss this further, I will return as soon as I can, my appologies.
    Zuca

      
    shiloh
    Junior Member (Idle past 6116 days)
    Posts: 28
    Joined: 06-21-2007


    Message 15 of 82 (406618)
    06-21-2007 3:22 PM


    Well I have to leave soon so I will give a teaser.
    The fact of the matter is that man was created to image God - that is as if God himself were present overseeing the earth, it is a delegated authority. Context suggest stewardship - Ch. 1:27
    It not form but function. Anything that you try to suggest that is the image either flucuates or is absent in some indivuals or is present in some animals - this can not be the image. Furhtermore, the image is still in effect after the fall 9:6.
    The problem seems to be in the understanding of the word "in."
    In Hebrew and in English there are many different use for this preposition.
    A few examples are 1. The spoon is in the sink -location. 2. I work in electronics - function or capacity.
    Also Jesus is the image of God - "If you have seen me you have seen the Father."
    More can be said but I got to go.

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by Nighttrain, posted 06-21-2007 10:47 PM shiloh has replied
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     Message 32 by fred, posted 11-30-2007 9:55 AM shiloh has not replied

      
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