In His own image .....

This concept of God making Man in His own image has been derided by myself and many other atheists. But I have thought of a way of making sense of the idea, and hereby offer it free to all Christians to use in support of their beliefs.Imagine God, about to create Adam. God is worried about Adam's reaction when he first sees Him. Will he be terrified? Will he be able to relate to Him at all?So God has the bright idea of first making himself look like a human being, so that Adam, on first awakening, will see a creature just like himself and not be alarmed.So having first assumed the image of a human, the image He intends for Adam, God then proceeds to make Adam in his own image.Isn't that simple and logical?Mike.

I've no problem with that - assuming I believed that Adam and Eve were historical people in a garden, which I don't.It certainly isn't unusual in the Bible for God to interact with people in a manner that is clearly designed to accomodate the needs of the people, nor is it strange to find him doing or saying things which pre-figure later events - and ultimately in Christ I believe He became a man.Though I think the metaphor of humanity being in the "image of God" is far richer and more powerful than mere physical appearance. I believe it is a description of those things that seperate us from other creatures (though other animals share some of these characteristics which is hardly surprising given that we evolved from earlier creatures like everything else). These include a moral sense of right and wrong that seems to extend beyond mere care for self and relatives, ability to relate to others, creativity, abstract thought etc ...Alan

When it states we were created in image of God it does not mean that God is a physical being and that we are like him in that manner. This is unfortunately the misunderstandings of the Mormon church and even some evangelicals. In the Hebrew language Image - "tselem" - is related to nature, the immaterial part of man. It means we have a spiritual nature like God in a finite way. likeness- Hebrew "Demuth" does not mean in a physical sense. This means we have a spiritual nature like God, God is Spirit (or energy). The similarity is we have finite qualities like God. Qualities such as free will. But human mind is limited, and therefore lacks the ability to conceive of God (who is perfect). So the scripture describes God in familiar terms, in order for us to grasp aspects of God's character.

Imagine God, about to create Adam. God is worried about Adam's reaction when he first sees Him. Will he be terrified? Will he be able to relate to Him at all?Who's to say that the image of a human is not terrifying to a newly created being, or a tree, or birds? Surely a freshly made adult human would have no concept of terror.[This message has been edited by David unfamous, 04-11-2003]

But human mind is limited, and therefore lacks the ability to conceive of God (who is perfect).If your mind is limited, and you can't conceive God, then how do you know he is 'perfect'? In fact, how do you know you know anything at all about God?

For that matter, can you provide evidence of the limits of the human mind? At least in terms of an inability to concieve or think of something. (Clearly there's things the mind can't do, like jump out of my head and grab a beer from the fridge.) I think it's pretty clear that the mind can grasp any concept.I mean, I have no trouble grasping the true nature of god. It's a symbol we create to personify certain anthropomorphisms we impose on the universe (absolute moral code, persistence of being, etc). Not too hard to bend one's mind around.The "ineffability" argument has always struck me as a kind of self-flaggelation. I mean, if I was arguing with someone else who disagreed with me, and I told them "your mind is just too limited to understand", that wouldn't be a logical position. Why then should I apply that to myself?------------------
Epimenedes Signature: This is not a signature.

The God of the Bible.1)omnipotent
2)omnipresent
3)omniscience
4)omnipotentWe are none of these things. In His image just means we have some of His basic attributes but limited. So when He made Adam He was not worried because He already knows everything. We can have a million PHD's but we still understand nothing compared to an all powerful and all knowing eternal creator God. When someone says we have evolved from a lower animal I'm sure you know what I and many others will ask.1)Were you there and where is the evidence?According to the Bible when God created the heavens and the earth there was no sin so there was no death. It was very good. It was paradise. They were eternal and not corrupted by sin. Thats why it says the wages of sin is death. So when Adam and Eve were tested by God to see if they would obey and love Him they rebelled. By their own choice because if not love is rendered meaningless. So God had to judge the world and it was cursed. So we have suffered from 6,000 years of the curse. So man doesn't look as Adam and Eve did. So death came into the world and that is why Christ died. To free the cursed creation from death and restore it back to the original purpose. Thats why it says the earth is growning to be restored back to its original state. And we see this clearly in the evironment. Everything was change. Even the animals. They didn't eat eachother before the curse. A good God would not create something as we see it.I'm asking this as very serious question.1)Does that or in the beginning was a big bang sound like a fairy tale?[This message has been edited by drummachine, 04-12-2003]

Drum did you notice the difference?The big bang theory allows for predictions that can be checked out. We can actually measure results of it.

NosyNed,Would you please be willing to give me evidence of the big bang?Look at the machine-like system of man. By chance?If evolution is true which I believe is impossible its like saying a blind folded chimp can build a microsoft program.

"For that matter, can you provide evidence of the limits of the human mind?"I'll try... In theory everything we need to know we can learn.I doubt that this theory is correct, simply because the amount of information stored in our universe in FINITE, not INFINITE.
To retain a piece of knowledge an electron in our brain (or in a computer) must be elevated to a higher potential. That is, some amount of energy must be added to it. In other words, storage of information requires energy. Our universe has only finite amount of energy in it (that is if we stick to the Big Bang theory, of course). So this means it can only store a finite amount of information. A finite amount of KNOWLEDGE. Same thing goes for utilizing the knowledge, thinking process I guess. It also needs a certain amount of energy (which is limited in our universe).Don't get me wrong, we are far, far away from reaching our limit, however the fact is that in theory that limit exists. Kind of like in billions of years the Sun will die and so is most of life on earth including humans. That's our limit of surviving in this solar system. I won't worry about it, my kids and grand kids won't worry about it, but the fact is - it exists.As far as me saying that god is perfect, what I meant is that he is all knowing, possesing the ultimate knowledge. To me that is perfection. As I mentioned in my first reply, I consider G-d as an eternal unity, eternal energy, (spirit). Physics prove that it takes energy to store knowledge (information). That means that god has access to all knowledge stored in our universe at any given moment of time or any place there in. That's perfect.

TheOne, Sure! Do you know what I look like? So are you saying that because of a finite universe that a creator would be limited?So what is God to you? Is He energy?

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So are you saying that because of a finite universe that a creator would be limited?

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Not at all. I belive that G-d created our finite universe, thru the process of big bang and guided evolution, but that means that he also exsists outside of our physical, finite universe. In that sense he is not limited, but our ability to understand him fully is. Based on our 5 senses we can only know His TOTALITY in our finite universe, not outside it (unless we utilize some other senses... any ideas on that?)

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So what is God to you? Is He energy?

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To me G-d is Eternal Unity, the light or energy that brings life into the physical world (the world He has created).

TheOne,Which God is this?

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Which God is this?

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I'm under impression that there's only one God???
I guess u can call him different names which apply to different aspects of his being. For example in Judaism there's 72 names for
G-d. Islam has different, multiple names as well. Christianity I believe uses just G-d (not sure). But in any case, G-d is one. (IMO, of course)My personal understanding of God, comes from Jewish religion with Kabbalistic twist, so to speak. Even though there are different names, the Jews mostly relate to G-d as "Adonai/Elohim", hebrew for Eternal One. One, not in sense of "number one" or "the only one" but more like Unity. Kabbalah explains Creator as "Light" (energy).

TheOne - "For that matter, can you provide evidence of the limits of the human mind?"Drum - Sure! Do you know what I look like?I assume you are referring to a God's ability to know everything, including what you look like. Something that TheOne couldn't know with his limited mind (unless he knew you, or found a photo).Well I've had this discussion before, and I'd like to know how you know that your God knows what you look like. Or what I look like for that matter?But I know your answer already (does this make me a God?)