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Author Topic:   Israel the blessing or the curse
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 1 of 61 (482161)
09-15-2008 6:30 AM


Since this has been put into free for all changed the title to include the blessings not just the curse.
I was thinking bible inerrancy but feel too its to big to be coffee house perhaps bible study? Like the bible means what it says kind of stuff that keeps repeating all the worst natural disasters are related to Israel. Everytime we pressurized Israel to give up land to the palestians we get laid low by natural disaster within days.
As a nation we need to support Israel so God will protect us as a nation instead we go the route of inviting God to do to us what were pressuring Israel to do. Seems bible study given all the supportive bible verses, that its Gods land. The timing of Gustov, Katrina, Andrew, are but a special kind of statement that no nation is exempt in respect to Israel.
Joel 3:1,2
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and [for] my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
ISRAEL THE BLESSING OR THE CURSE
http://www.branchofdavid.org/literature.htm
In the 1400s, the Moors were kicked out of Spain by the Papal forces of Europe. In 1492, on the same day Columbus set sail for the New World, Spain expelled any unconverted Jews who had survived the Spanish Inquisition. This time they fled back to England where the Protestant reformation now welcomed them.
Spain's global empire lasted less than a century after it expelled its Jews, to be replaced by the Jew-friendly British Empire whose reach extended to every corner of the globe. In 1917, the British captured Palestine from the Muslims. The British Crown offered the Jews a homeland via the Balfour Declaration, and a year later, England won the First World War.
After the war, the British broke most of their promises to the Jews, restricted Jewish immigration to the Holy Land, and in the years since have increasingly turned their backs on the Jews that brought them such great blessings for more than 300 years.
The British Empire upon which "the sun never set" in 1900, had, by 1948, lost its last colony when Burma declared independence, and the British Empire was no more.
'I will bless them that bless thee'
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 09-15-2008 11:26 AM johnfolton has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
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Message 2 of 61 (482162)
09-15-2008 6:33 AM


Topic promotion notes
The message 1 of this topic was the message 3 of the Gustav ? New Orleans Evacuation, etc... "Proposed New Topic".
The topic title, "The relationship of U.S. support of Israel and natural disasters in the U.S.", is my creation.
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kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 3 of 61 (482168)
09-15-2008 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 6:30 AM


so where's your evidence? What land did we pressure Israel to give up during Katrina? Or this summer? Is it the threat of losing land or the actual loss of land, or both, that cause the disasters?
Does paying Isreal billions of dollars each year not count? Do you mean to say that so long as we prevent Israel from losing land we don't have to pay anything and we won't get hit by natural disasters? (Now there's a way to cut back on the budget and bring insurance rates down!)
What if we are struck by natural disasters where (and when) there is no connection to our dealings with Israel? Or are those natural disasters just a long-term punishment from God? How can you tell?
Seems to me you haven't thought it through at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 6:30 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 11:36 AM kuresu has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 4 of 61 (482170)
09-15-2008 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 6:30 AM


So what about all the disasters before Israel existed. There have been hurricanes, tornadoes, Earthquakes, Volcanic eruptions, Asteroid hits etc. long before Israel existed, long before humans existed, long before dinosaurs existed, long before trilobites existed long before any life existed. Explain that.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 6:30 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 12:16 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 5 of 61 (482190)
09-15-2008 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 6:30 AM


What did China do to Israel to cause their earthquake this Spring? What did Haiti do to them to get two killer hurricanes in a couple of weeks?
The hurricanes hitting the US are actually sent by Allah to punish us for supporting Israel, johnfolton. Don't you know nuthin'?

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 6:30 AM johnfolton has replied

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 6 of 61 (482195)
09-15-2008 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by kuresu
09-15-2008 7:31 AM


so where's your evidence? What land did we pressure Israel to give up during Katrina? Or this summer? Is it the threat of losing land or the actual loss of land, or both, that cause the disasters?
The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God." Genesis 17:1-8
" 'The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you are but aliens and my tenants. Leviticus 25:23
Be strong and courageous, because you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them. (Joshua 1,6)
You gave them kingdoms and nations, allotting to them even the remotest frontiers... You made their sons as numerous as the stars in the sky, and you brought them into the land that you told their fathers to enter and possess. (Nehemiah 9,22-23)
4Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the Lord your God will gather you and bring you back. 5He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. Deut. 30:1-5
Joel 3:2, “I will enter into judgment with them [all the nations who] . have divided up My Land.”
Ten Major U.S. Disasters on Dates Significant to Treatment of Israel-Truth!
Ten major U.S. disasters on dates significant to treatment of Israel-Truth! - Truth or Fiction?
FROM WND'S JERUSALEM BUREAU
Did God send Katrina
as judgment for Gaza?
Eerie parallels between forced evacuations spark speculation
Posted: September 07, 2005
1:00 am Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com
Page not found - WND
Joel 3:2, “I will enter into judgment with them [all the nations who] . have divided up My Land.”
Attention Required! | Cloudflare

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by kuresu, posted 09-15-2008 7:31 AM kuresu has replied

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 7 of 61 (482199)
09-15-2008 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Coragyps
09-15-2008 11:26 AM


What did China do to Israel to cause their earthquake this Spring? What did Haiti do to them to get two killer hurricanes in a couple of weeks?
The hurricanes hitting the US are actually sent by Allah to punish us for supporting Israel, johnfolton. Don't you know nuthin'
Allahs the great Satan the muslims god! thought you knew this?
Here's a verse perhaps about the Lord sitting at the right hand that God judges amoung the heathen nations. In verse 1 the Lord said unto my Lord sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies a footstool. psalm 110:1 in verse 4 we see he has sworn and will not repent that he will strike thru kings in the day of his wrath.
akjv psalms 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies: he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 8 of 61 (482204)
09-15-2008 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by bluescat48
09-15-2008 8:44 AM


Off topic material hidden; use peek to see it. The bible says talks about the nations inheritance that Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance. Prophecy has it that he cast them out as tenants and brought them back. It due to his word to Sarah to her seed belongs the right to abide in the promised lands that belongs to God going back to the inheritance of the nations.
Deuteronomy 32:9 "For the LORD'S portion is His people; Jacob is the allotment of His inheritance.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminNosy, : off topic hidden

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by bluescat48, posted 09-15-2008 8:44 AM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by bluescat48, posted 09-15-2008 1:02 PM johnfolton has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 9 of 61 (482213)
09-15-2008 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 12:16 PM


Off topic text hidden; use peek to see it.
Edited by bluescat48, : quote correction
Edited by bluescat48, : Accidental erasure of sentence
Edited by bluescat48, : typo
Edited by AdminNosy, : Hidding off topic stuff.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 12:16 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 10 of 61 (482217)
09-15-2008 1:12 PM


Oh, for fuck's sake, what an utterly stupid topic.
Everyone knows all of the hurricanes are punishments from God for tolerating homosexuality!
Seriously though, this whole "everything bad that happens must be a punishment from God" meme is old and tired. We know why hurricanes form. We have no reason whatsoever to assume they are manually controlled by some deity whose existence is questionable at best.
Hurricanes always follow a specific pattern. Ever wonder why Britain never gets hit with a hurricane? Or Saudi Arabia? It's because the specific meteorological conditions that spawn hurricanes happen in a specific region of the world, and the global winds carry them from east to west where they land somewhere around the Eastern coast of the Americas. They never go from west to east, they never hit anywhere else, and the strength of the storms is the direct result of atmospheric conditions.
Are tornadoes punishments from God? I know of several tonadoes that specifically destroyed churches - including fundamentalists who would agree with you.
This is nothing mroe than confirmation bias and simple human stupidity and superstition. If something good happens, it's a blessing from God. If something bad happens, it's a punishment. It doesn't matter if we know exactly what caused the event, God is always assumed to be the cause of the cause. In the case of "punishments," it's not uncommon for bigots to insist that God's wrath was visited upon for support of , as was the case with Falwel (I think it was him) blaming Katrina on the gays.
The fact that these storms have lately been hitting squarely in teh base of the Bible Belt, where most of the fundamentalists tend to live int he first place, as opposed to havens of gay rights supporters or Washington where policy regarding Isreal is actually decided goes compeltely over their heads.
Anyone who believes natural disasters are punishments from a deity in this day and age is an idiot. No questions asked, no exceptions, no mitigations, if you honestly think that hurricanes are the Wrath of God you are a moron. It was possibly understandable when we had no idea how hurricanes or lightning or earthquakes or tornadoes formed and why such cateclysmic events occurred, but we do have that knowledge now, and there is no excuse for continuing to hold on to the backwards rationalizations of cave men.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 36 by bluegenes, posted 09-16-2008 4:11 PM Rahvin has replied
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 11 of 61 (482222)
09-15-2008 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by bluescat48
09-15-2008 1:02 PM


Off topic hidden; use peek to see it
Edited by AdminNosy, : hiding off topic stuff

This message is a reply to:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 12 of 61 (482229)
09-15-2008 1:41 PM


Hidding off topic posts now
Please focus on the topic.
Edited by AdminNosy, : correct the author

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5592 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 13 of 61 (482230)
09-15-2008 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Rahvin
09-15-2008 1:12 PM


Everyone knows all of the hurricanes are punishments from God for tolerating homosexuality!
Katrina did stop one of those get togethers, hmmm... love it a two for one! So your partly at fault for Katrina but think we all knew that the bigger issue was the timing in respect to Israel land!
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Rahvin, posted 09-15-2008 1:12 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Rahvin, posted 09-15-2008 2:09 PM johnfolton has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 14 of 61 (482233)
09-15-2008 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 1:44 PM


quote:
Everyone knows all of the hurricanes are punishments from God for tolerating homosexuality!
Katrina did stop one of those get togethers, hmmm... love it a two for one! So your partly at fault for Katrina but think we all knew that the bigger issue was the timing in respect to Israel land!
Thanks for:
1) Admitting that you're a homophobic bigot who thinks homosexuals deserve to be killed.
2) Admitting that you're an idiot who willingly accepts stoneage rationalizations for natural disasters over objectively proven explanations.
3) Admitting that you have absolutely no argument by ignoring virtually the entirety of my post. I'll re-post it, just for you.
Here's what you ignored:
quote:
Seriously though, this whole "everything bad that happens must be a punishment from God" meme is old and tired. We know why hurricanes form. We have no reason whatsoever to assume they are manually controlled by some deity whose existence is questionable at best.
Hurricanes always follow a specific pattern. Ever wonder why Britain never gets hit with a hurricane? Or Saudi Arabia? It's because the specific meteorological conditions that spawn hurricanes happen in a specific region of the world, and the global winds carry them from east to west where they land somewhere around the Eastern coast of the Americas. They never go from west to east, they never hit anywhere else, and the strength of the storms is the direct result of atmospheric conditions.
Are tornadoes punishments from God? I know of several tonadoes that specifically destroyed churches - including fundamentalists who would agree with you.
This is nothing mroe than confirmation bias and simple human stupidity and superstition. If something good happens, it's a blessing from God. If something bad happens, it's a punishment. It doesn't matter if we know exactly what caused the event, God is always assumed to be the cause of the cause. In the case of "punishments," it's not uncommon for bigots to insist that God's wrath was visited upon for support of , as was the case with Falwel (I think it was him) blaming Katrina on the gays.
The fact that these storms have lately been hitting squarely in teh base of the Bible Belt, where most of the fundamentalists tend to live int he first place, as opposed to havens of gay rights supporters or Washington where policy regarding Isreal is actually decided goes compeltely over their heads.
Anyone who believes natural disasters are punishments from a deity in this day and age is an idiot. No questions asked, no exceptions, no mitigations, if you honestly think that hurricanes are the Wrath of God you are a moron. It was possibly understandable when we had no idea how hurricanes or lightning or earthquakes or tornadoes formed and why such cateclysmic events occurred, but we do have that knowledge now, and there is no excuse for continuing to hold on to the backwards rationalizations of cave men.
So, you have no evidence you deity exists, no evidence to support your assertion that natural disasters are the direct result of "God's Wrath," no evidence to support your assertion that the latest hurricanes are specifically due to America's "lack of support for Israel" (despite the fact that we're Isreal's strongest ally), no answer to the fact tat the places that tend to be hit with hurricanes are fundamentalist strongholds rather than centers of anti-Israel or pro-gay-rights supporters, and no response to the assertion that only idiots take the ignorant rationalizations of cave men over the objectively proven models of modern science.
Forgive the run-on sentence, but there was a lot of stuff you ignored. Is your attemtion span so short you can't read beyond a couple of sentences? That would explain why you feel the need to use "goddidit" and "godspissed" to explain well-understood meteorological phenomenon. Of course, I still maintain that the reason you ignored the remainder was because you have no answer to any of it, and are dealing with an opposing argument by simply pretending it isn't there. It's a classic fundamentalist tactic, but when the conversation is in writing so that everyone can see what you ignored, it only makes you look like an idiot. Funny how so many things are simultaneously making you look like a fool. If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 1:44 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by johnfolton, posted 09-15-2008 5:58 PM Rahvin has replied

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2513 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 15 of 61 (482236)
09-15-2008 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by johnfolton
09-15-2008 11:36 AM


Worldnetdaily is a crackpot's dream website.
It is notable that every disaster the truthorfiction site details is from 1989 to 1999. Certainly there are more, right? Israel is, after all, only 60 years old. Should be long enough to show that whenever we pressure Israel to do something contrary to the Bible we get slammed with something.
But at least its good to know that we can stop paying Israel billions of dollars per year.
Coincidences, no matter how "eery" are not causal relationships. It is up to you to prove the cause-effect relationship. Tough luck.

This message is a reply to:
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