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Author Topic:   Why should religion get a free pass?
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 61 of 112 (485798)
10-11-2008 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by atatty
10-11-2008 4:20 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
What a fucking joke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by atatty, posted 10-11-2008 4:20 PM atatty has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by johnfolton, posted 10-11-2008 9:54 PM Larni has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 112 (485799)
10-11-2008 7:37 PM


No Free Passes At EvC
Here at EvC nobody gets free passes, especially POVs which involve the supernatural/religion. If we get into the threads we must earn that priviledge with substance deemed acceptable by admins as appropriately debatable. I'm not complaining about that.
I'm objecting to the notion here that free passes are extended to religious creationists.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 112 (485802)
10-11-2008 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by atatty
10-11-2008 4:20 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
atatty writes:
According to a recent study, a new generation of scientists is turning on the evolutionary scientific establishment. According to one participant, “Evolutionists and their dogma have become obstacles to scientific advancement”...
Hi Atatty. Welcome to EvC. I'm not apprised enought on the content of the links to offer an opinion. However, likely science will come to realization that there are higher intelligences, beings and forces in the universe than we wee ones are aware of on this tiny speck we call planet earth. Some of the aspects of particles, dark matter and other mysteries may relate to sciences which are emerging into significance.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 64 of 112 (485808)
10-11-2008 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Buzsaw
10-11-2008 7:57 PM


Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution--Not
However, likely science will come to realization that there are higher intelligences, beings and forces in the universe than we wee ones are aware of on this tiny speck we call planet earth. Some of the aspects of particles, dark matter and other mysteries may relate to sciences which are emerging into significance.
If it can be measured or otherwise detected and quantified by science its not supernatural. (Sorry.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

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 Message 63 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2008 7:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 65 of 112 (485814)
10-11-2008 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Larni
10-11-2008 7:35 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
I find it so true that evolution science was stolen from the bible then repackaged. God the author of the bible said genes can be purged from a gene pool after 10 generations bible micro-evolution science principles about genetic's(evolutionists stole micro-evolution science from the bible repackaged it as a lie called macro-evolution),
The bible says the earth and the universe had a beginning (the evolutionists don't deny the universe had a beginning so they said they created the big bang),
the bible declaring that there were fossil in the earth catastrophically formed by a world flood by the earth( the fossils being formed suddenly that were there just as the bible proclaimed so the evolutionists had to move the goal posts to explain this to large periods of time. So the pseudo science of paleontology had to sell this garbage to the guillable because the fossil record proved the earth but was an young earth),
that the earth is young (creationists are dating all fossils thousands of years old) so the evolutionists say they don't date by C14 cause the fossils are old, etc...
The bible says no transistional fossils (creationists say if transistional occured they are not in the fossil record) so the evolutionists come up with claudistic similarities but that does not get around the missing fossils that are just not there). The evolutionists call it the common ancestor but without batting an eye about the lack of transistionals they say the common ancestor while the creationists say the fossil evidence proves it an young earth.
I suspect the evolutionists know its an young earth but given they stole all their great ideas and spun truth into a lie they can not admit they twisted all their scientific principles from the bible.
To cover their backsides they ridicule the bible as not being a scientific source of information when micro-evolution principles that that the evolutionist twisted and breeders use the untwisted micro-evolution principles that come from the bible to purge unwanted genes from a gene pool. Lets teach creationism not lies twisted from the truth in the bible, etc...
P.S. The evolutionists know there is not any transistional fossils that support their theory the scientific principles they stole from the bible there twisting cause the transisitional fossils just are not there. A little child waiting for mommy dog to have puppies expects puppies cause thats how it works. If you want to teach people to identify trees go to the library. You have the same kinds of creatures going back thousands of years yet evolutionists would say evolution is based on sound scientific principles.
The truth is that they twisted the scientific principles they stolen from the bible so micro changes supports macro changes when you just don't have evidence of transistional characteristics creating a new kind. People use characteristics to identify tree's, bird, lizards, fish, from books its quite amazing how kinds characteristics are not changing allowing people to identify all kinds of creatures that are not changin into a different kind of creature. Mosquitoes billions of mutations yet still a Mosquitoes, etc...
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Larni, posted 10-11-2008 7:35 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by bluescat48, posted 10-11-2008 10:50 PM johnfolton has replied
 Message 67 by Huntard, posted 10-12-2008 4:43 AM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 68 by Larni, posted 10-12-2008 7:57 AM johnfolton has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 66 of 112 (485816)
10-11-2008 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by johnfolton
10-11-2008 9:54 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
The truth is that they twisted the scientific principles they stolen from the bible so micro changes supports macro changes when you just don't have evidence of transistional characteristics creating a new kind. People use characteristics to identify tree's, bird, lizards, fish, from books its quite amazing how kinds characteristics are not changing allowing people to identify all kinds of creatures that are not changin into a different kind of creature. Mosquitoes billions of mutations yet still a Mosquitoes, etc...
How could they steal science from the Bible when the Bible has no science at all just myths.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by johnfolton, posted 10-11-2008 9:54 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by johnfolton, posted 10-12-2008 3:03 PM bluescat48 has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 67 of 112 (485830)
10-12-2008 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by johnfolton
10-11-2008 9:54 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
johnfolton writes:
I find it so true that evolution science was stolen from the bible then repackaged.
Evolution was taken from the bible? The bible says all creatures were created in one go by god, evolution says they all develloped from a common ancestor.
God the author of the bible said genes can be purged from a gene pool after 10 generations bible micro-evolution science principles about genetic's(evolutionists stole micro-evolution science from the bible repackaged it as a lie called macro-evolution)
First off, prove GOD wrote the bible and not men, second, it does NOT speak about genetics AT ALL.
The bible says the earth and the universe had a beginning (the evolutionists don't deny the universe had a beginning so they said they created the big bang)
Evolutionsists didn't create the big bang, that would be physicists.
the bible declaring that there were fossil in the earth catastrophically formed by a world flood by the earth( the fossils being formed suddenly that were there just as the bible proclaimed so the evolutionists had to move the goal posts to explain this to large periods of time. So the pseudo science of paleontology had to sell this garbage to the guillable because the fossil record proved the earth but was an young earth)
The bible says NOTHING about fossils. Furthermore, they could not have formed in the flood, since they'd be sorted rather differently then they are now.
that the earth is young (creationists are dating all fossils thousands of years old) so the evolutionists say they don't date by C14 cause the fossils are old, etc...
Of course you can't date fossils with carbon 14 dating, THERE'S NO CARBON IN THEM.
The bible says no transistional fossils (creationists say if transistional occured they are not in the fossil record) so the evolutionists come up with claudistic similarities but that does not get around the missing fossils that are just not there). The evolutionists call it the common ancestor but without batting an eye about the lack of transistionals they say the common ancestor while the creationists say the fossil evidence proves it an young earth.
ALL fossils are transitional. Furthermore, fossilisation is a very rare process, of course not all lifefroms that ever existed get fossilized. About the common ancestor, the strongest evidence for this is not the fossil record, but genetics.
I suspect the evolutionists know its an young earth but given they stole all their great ideas and spun truth into a lie they can not admit they twisted all their scientific principles from the bible.
"Evolutionists" did NOT take ANYTHINGS from the bible. further, the bible is BY NO MEANS a scientific work in ANY respect.
To cover their backsides they ridicule the bible as not being a scientific source of information when micro-evolution principles that that the evolutionist twisted and breeders use the untwisted micro-evolution principles that come from the bible to purge unwanted genes from a gene pool. Lets teach creationism not lies twisted from the truth in the bible, etc...
No evolutionary principles come from the bible. I agree, we shouldn't teach lies....like creationism.
P.S. The evolutionists know there is not any transistional fossils that support their theory the scientific principles they stole from the bible there twisting cause the transisitional fossils just are not there. A little child waiting for mommy dog to have puppies expects puppies cause thats how it works. If you want to teach people to identify trees go to the library. You have the same kinds of creatures going back thousands of years yet evolutionists would say evolution is based on sound scientific principles.
Evoultions IS based on sound scientific principles, in spite of your unfounded claims that it is not.
The truth is that they twisted the scientific principles they stolen from the bible so micro changes supports macro changes when you just don't have evidence of transistional characteristics creating a new kind. People use characteristics to identify tree's, bird, lizards, fish, from books its quite amazing how kinds characteristics are not changing allowing people to identify all kinds of creatures that are not changin into a different kind of creature. Mosquitoes billions of mutations yet still a Mosquitoes, etc...
How many times are you going to repeat these lies? Seriously stop it, it's not making you look good.

I hunt for the truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by johnfolton, posted 10-11-2008 9:54 PM johnfolton has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 68 of 112 (485835)
10-12-2008 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by johnfolton
10-11-2008 9:54 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
First off: all you rantings below have got bugger all to do with why religion should get a free pass.
Whatever writes:
God the author of the bible said genes can be purged from a gene pool after 10 generations bible micro-evolution science principles about genetic's(evolutionists stole micro-evolution science from the bible repackaged it as a lie called macro-evolution),
It's really hard to see what you mean when your grammar and punctuation is so faulty: do you mean to say the bible delineates genetics?
Bret writes:
The bible says the earth and the universe had a beginning (the evolutionists don't deny the universe had a beginning so they said they created the big bang),
Again if I can penetrate your prose (pardon the alliteration) are you saying that scientists know that they are wrong and that they cover it up? Remember the fantastic opening sequence of the much acclaimed TV series 'Monkey'?: by your logic, this must be true also.
Charley writes:
the bible declaring that there were fossil in the earth catastrophically formed by a world flood by the earth( the fossils being formed suddenly that were there just as the bible proclaimed so the evolutionists had to move the goal posts to explain this to large periods of time. So the pseudo science of paleontology had to sell this garbage to the guillable because the fossil record proved the earth but was an young earth),
So there are scientist out there who know that fossil dates are wrong and rather than overturning the current paradigm and winning a Nobel Prize, they dummy up? So there is a science conspiracy? Wear a tin foil hat much?
Craig writes:
that the earth is young (creationists are dating all fossils thousands of years old) so the evolutionists say they don't date by C14 cause the fossils are old, etc...
You do know that if you measure radio active decay beyond 50,000 years with C14 you are trying to measure a mile with a 12 inch ruler don't you? You do know that, don't you?
The Golfer writes:
The bible says no transistional fossils (creationists say if transistional occured they are not in the fossil record) so the evolutionists come up with claudistic similarities but that does not get around the missing fossils that are just not there). The evolutionists call it the common ancestor but without batting an eye about the lack of transistionals they say the common ancestor while the creationists say the fossil evidence proves it an young earth.
I give you Tiktaalik: Tiktaalik - Wikipedia
Tim writes:
I suspect the evolutionists know its an young earth but given they stole all their great ideas and spun truth into a lie they can not admit they twisted all their scientific principles from the bible.
Tin foil hats ahoy!
Tom writes:
To cover their backsides they ridicule the bible as not being a scientific source of information when micro-evolution principles that that the evolutionist twisted and breeders use the untwisted micro-evolution principles that come from the bible to purge unwanted genes from a gene pool. Lets teach creationism not lies twisted from the truth in the bible, etc...
Yeah, not sure exactly what you mean. Are you saying that the biblical theory of genetics is better then the contemporary theory? If so, that is the position of a moron.
johnfolton writes:
P.S. The evolutionists know there is not any transistional fossils that support their theory the scientific principles they stole from the bible there twisting cause the transisitional fossils just are not there. A little child waiting for mommy dog to have puppies expects puppies cause thats how it works. If you want to teach people to identify trees go to the library. You have the same kinds of creatures going back thousands of years yet evolutionists would say evolution is based on sound scientific principles.
The truth is that they twisted the scientific principles they stolen from the bible so micro changes supports macro changes when you just don't have evidence of transistional characteristics creating a new kind. People use characteristics to identify tree's, bird, lizards, fish, from books its quite amazing how kinds characteristics are not changing allowing people to identify all kinds of creatures that are not changin into a different kind of creature. Mosquitoes billions of mutations yet still a Mosquitoes, etc...
A big hat. A big massive tin hat to block the conspiracy waves from scientist the world around. Ever heard of an air loom, or Count Otto Black?
So, not addressing the topic and a rant about a conspiracy.
Well done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by johnfolton, posted 10-11-2008 9:54 PM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by johnfolton, posted 10-12-2008 10:37 AM Larni has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 69 of 112 (485837)
10-12-2008 8:29 AM


Topic Reminder
Evolution is not the topic of this thread. I believe the actual topic has something to do with religion not being held to normal standards of credulity.
There are two requirements if one isn't to be complicit in topic drift:
  1. Do not introduce off-topic arguments.
  2. Do not reply to off-topic arguments.
Please, everyone, do your part to help this thread remain on-topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 70 of 112 (485845)
10-12-2008 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Larni
10-12-2008 7:57 AM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
The reason religion is not given free pass is your rock is not as our Rock but that you being enemies to the Rock have made yourselves judges. However to the Rock belongeth vengence and their foot shall slide in due time to the calamity at hand and the things that come make haste. deuteronomy 32:31-35 verse 43
P.S. Scientists are not all athiests and those that are not know full well the only reason the theory of evolution is given a free pass is that your rock has created separation from church and state by those liberal judges that are redefining the constitution not upholding the constitution. McCain Pallin elect so conservative federal judges are appointed that will uphold the constitution instead of redefining the constitution taking away evolutions free pass within our educational system.

This message is a reply to:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 71 of 112 (485847)
10-12-2008 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 10:50 AM


However, my main point stands that if we can't falsify either of our beliefs about god, then it should get a free pass because we cannot know which of us is right.
And yet if unfalsifiable claims are made in economics, war justifications, tax policy...then they are criticized (often on the grounds that they make claims that are either unfalsifiable or unverifiable or both). Why should religion itself be exempt?

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lyx2no
Member (Idle past 4716 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 72 of 112 (485849)
10-12-2008 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by johnfolton
10-12-2008 10:37 AM


The Rock
What does The Rock have to do with this. Dude, you've gone completely off the deep end.
I'd think religion gets a free pass because everyone has stupid ideas. And if we don't want our own questioned don't question those of others. Though some of us, myself included, like identifying and getting rid of our dumb ideas. We're the ones who put the stick in the mud.

Kindly
When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel . everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 73 of 112 (485850)
10-12-2008 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
10-11-2008 5:31 PM


Re: No Free Pass To Biblical Fundamentalism Necessary
Many religions expect and get a free pass from their advocates. However that is not the case with Biblical fundamentalism
Buz I find myself almost agreeing with you. This comes as quite a shock as I am not sure it has ever happened before.
The Book of Mormon/Mormonism, the Koran/Islam, Zen Buddism, RC Hierarchal Vaticanism, Shintoism, Hinduism etc are some examples coming to mind which expect and get a free pass from their adherents.
I think the belief systems that get, and unjustly demand, the biggest "free pass" in Western society are the the non-fundamentalist and generally 'deemed to be more acceptable' woolly and less well defined forms of Christianity. These and the other main monotheistic religions do get a free pass in the sense that if someone proclaims that they hold a particular view based on faith and belief in God then it is almost expected that such a view is considered all but beyond reproach or criticism because faith should be respected.
Christian fundamentalism however effectively claims that such faith is consistent with, and even to some extent founded upon, physical evidence. I don't think many people have nearly the same qualms about debunking evidence based assertions in the same way that they very well might if confronted with purely theistic views.
I think this is justified and to be expected as evidence based arguments will always be more concrete and well defined than purely logical or philosophical ones.
But for what it is worth I think you are broadly right when you say that Christian fundamentalism does not get the same sort of "free pass" as other religious, less fundamentalist and more philosophical in nature, positions often do.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2008 5:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 74 of 112 (485852)
10-12-2008 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by johnfolton
10-12-2008 10:37 AM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
If your religion is not given a free pass then it is perfectly fine (although rude) to say your beliefs are fuckwitted and moronic.
Unless for some reason your beliefs are special, that is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by johnfolton, posted 10-12-2008 10:37 AM johnfolton has not replied

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 75 of 112 (485866)
10-12-2008 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by bluescat48
10-11-2008 10:50 PM


Re: Generation of Scientists Turning Againist Evolution
How could they steal science from the Bible
Scientific Proof of the Bible
This chart shows scientific facts and principles referred to in the Bible, but not actually discovered by humankind until later centuries
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF THE BIBLE
Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by bluescat48, posted 10-11-2008 10:50 PM bluescat48 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Brian, posted 10-12-2008 4:24 PM johnfolton has replied
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