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Author Topic:   Discovery or Ignorance: The Choice Is yours?
John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 301 of 402 (474460)
07-08-2008 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Rrhain
07-08-2008 2:53 AM


quote:
The same way man creates and engineers anything man does.
Humans use evolution. The Boeing 777, for example, wasn't designed. It was literally evolved.
I won't even try to respond to such wisdom as this!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Rrhain, posted 07-08-2008 2:53 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 302 of 402 (474461)
07-08-2008 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 3:27 PM


According to the story, the guppies that changed somewhat were still of the guppy species, and did not mutate into some other species altogether
False, they were unable to mate with each other, ergo speciation had occured. They in fact did mutate into another species.

soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 303 of 402 (474462)
07-08-2008 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Rrhain
07-08-2008 2:56 AM


Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handywork.
Indeed it does. It is by studying the world we live in that we have come to the conclusion that the diversity of life we see on this planet is the result of evolution, not "intelligent design."
If you really believed this, you would also believe that He intelligently designed this universe and all life therein.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Rrhain, posted 07-08-2008 2:56 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 304 of 402 (474463)
07-08-2008 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Rrhain
07-08-2008 3:03 AM


quote:
Big difference between proving fission in the 1930's and proving evolution has occurred over billion of years.
Why? What part of the fossil record are you having trouble with? What part of the molecular phylogenetic tree are you having trouble with?
The part that actually proves over billions of years that the start-to-finish ToE model works, and did not come about by our Creator creating each species after their own kind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Rrhain, posted 07-08-2008 3:03 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 305 of 402 (474464)
07-08-2008 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Rrhain
07-08-2008 3:30 AM


Oh, by the way: We can even create what you demand from scratch: Self-replicating, auto-catalysing, homochiral molecules that evolve.
Maybe you would also like to try creating your own material to do your research with, instead of starting with material that was created by our Creator. What arrogance!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Rrhain, posted 07-08-2008 3:30 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 306 of 402 (474465)
07-08-2008 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Blue Jay
07-08-2008 9:54 AM


Re: Observations
In order to make a debate out of this, you now have to provide evidence to show that there is a difference between proving fission and proving evolution, or at least show how my evidence is faulty.
Answered in message 300.

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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 307 of 402 (474466)
07-08-2008 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Dr Adequate
07-08-2008 10:48 AM


Re: John You Have Convinced Me
Those 72 Nobel Prize winning scientists I quoted --- do they know what "true science" is?
Answered in message 300.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2008 10:48 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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deerbreh
Member (Idle past 2892 days)
Posts: 882
Joined: 06-22-2005


Message 308 of 402 (474467)
07-08-2008 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 3:17 PM


Re: Observations
quote:
Scientists who believe in their Creator do all manner of scientific research,....
Please don't be deliberately dense. There is a big difference between scientists who believe in a Creator doing scientific research and "Creationist Science." The former is science, the latter isn't. But I think you know that.

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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 309 of 402 (474468)
07-08-2008 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Dr Adequate
07-08-2008 10:58 AM


Re: Observations
Intelligent design is simply the belief/knowledge that our creator God, before anything was created, proceeded to intelligently design (and create) the universe and all life therein from the start to the finish.
So ... does it not rule out evolution? Only that definition would include a deity who incorporated evolution, the Big Bang, et cetera into his plan: in other words a real God who made the universe we actually live in.
Yes, it does rule out evolution as you have defined evolution. The Creator we creationists know created every creature after their own kind, and did not step back and seemingly let this process happen by randomness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-08-2008 10:58 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 310 of 402 (474469)
07-08-2008 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 4:43 PM


This is the Science Forum; do science
Yes, it does rule out evolution as you have defined evolution. The Creator we creationists know created every creature after their own kind, and did not step back and seemingly let this process happen by randomness.
This thread is in the Science Forums section.
Document what you have claimed above. Specifically show scientific documentation for "kinds."
Not creation "science," but real science please. And don't bother quoting scripture or revelation, as that is not science (quite the opposite, in fact).

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 311 of 402 (474471)
07-08-2008 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Coyote
07-08-2008 2:59 PM


Re: More nonsense
"Things that can never be proven" include the theory of gravity, germ theory, and all other scientific theories.
Most scientists who live in a real world would disagree.
Most scientists who work in valuable scientific research are able to:
(1) prove how gravity works and thereby engineer the force of gravity into other useful results,
(2) determine how germs attack the human body and how to prevent them doing their evil work, and
(3) take scientific theories that are true and prove them to be ture to a high degree of accuracy, and how to take these proven facts and make them useful.

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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 312 of 402 (474472)
07-08-2008 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by mark24
07-08-2008 3:07 PM


Re: A fond farewell to John
The ToE has been "proven" to a high degree of accuracy, which makes it a "fact" by your own standard.
By your standard, but not by mine.
See message 300.

This message is a reply to:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 313 of 402 (474473)
07-08-2008 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by rueh
07-08-2008 3:12 PM


Now than, have I proven anything by following your model? Do my predictions correspond with my evidence? yes, so there is no need to incorpurate my theory into anyone elses and we are back to a earth cented solar system. Come on now this isn't science. This is at most a method to develop a best guess.
You didn't finish your example, thereby making it true science.
(1) The sun does not rise in the east, travel and then set in the west.
(2) The earth revolves on its axis, creating night and day.
(3) The earth revolves around the sun, creating seasons.
(4) The sun, with its planets & their moons, is a part of the Milky Way galaxy.
That is true science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by rueh, posted 07-08-2008 3:12 PM rueh has replied

Replies to this message:
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John 10:10
Member (Idle past 2995 days)
Posts: 766
From: Mt Juliet / TN / USA
Joined: 02-01-2006


Message 314 of 402 (474474)
07-08-2008 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by deerbreh
07-08-2008 3:17 PM


Actually, you are the one who doesn't "get it," if "it" is understanding the meaning of scientific theories. In fact, scientific theories do not magically turn into laws or absolutes no matter how well they explain the data. So to say as you did that "we finally agree that the ToE is a theory and not a fact" shows that you do not "get it." Sorry, but that is my opinion that I suspect most here would agree with.
I am under no ilusions that most here at the EVC forum do not get what I'm saying, but a few do.
It's the few that do understanding what I'm saying that I'm trying to reach.
Blessings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by deerbreh, posted 07-08-2008 3:17 PM deerbreh has not replied

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 315 of 402 (474475)
07-08-2008 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by John 10:10
07-08-2008 4:04 PM


John 10:10 writes:
Rrhain writes:
So you're saying the only evidence you'll accept is a videotape of every single creature that has ever lived so that you can have a grade-school version of a family tree?
I'm saying that in order for the ToE to be proven to be true, you must be able to do this.
Since you can't do this, the start-to-finish ToE predictions/theories are off limits to true scientific research.
I'm saying that, in order for your theory of nuclear fission to be proven true, you must be able to see an atomic nucleus fragment into two pieces.
Since you have never seen an actual nucleus, your theory of atomic fission is off-limits to true scientific research.
-----
Do you see the problem with this?
Since we have no hope of seeing something directly, we must completely abandon our attempt to understand it scientifically. If your 1930's physicists had applied your reasoning, we never would have discovered the enormous power supply available from nuclear fission.

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by John 10:10, posted 07-08-2008 4:04 PM John 10:10 has replied

Replies to this message:
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