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Author Topic:   Should those of religious faith be allowed to run this country?
Brad
Member (Idle past 4788 days)
Posts: 143
From: Portland OR, USA
Joined: 01-26-2004


Message 1 of 308 (213150)
06-01-2005 2:23 PM


Would a Christian fundamentalist be willing to have someone of Islamic faith in the whitehouse? Would a Christian fundamentalist be willing to allow the person to pray to their God and seek guidance for this country? Would a Christian be willing to support this president's action to have Islamic prayers at football games and school events? If the response of a Christian is (as I found out today from someone that I asked) is "Well, I don't believe in the validity of their God." ...well buddy, guess what they believe about your God. Are there any Christians here who would be willing to support this hypothetical? If so why? If not, why?
Brad
Released from [forum=-25]. --Admin

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 308 (213158)
06-01-2005 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brad
06-01-2005 2:23 PM


I would certainly support the idea of a Muslim President. I would oppose the idea of required prayers at a football game regardless of the nature or denomination. I would also oppose taking the words "Play Ball"out of the National Anthem.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Hrun
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 308 (213160)
06-01-2005 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brad
06-01-2005 2:23 PM


Shadow, seeing that you are located in the USA, the rules appear to be pretty simple. As long as the President is democratically elected and as long as the President adheres to the rules laid out in the consitution, his/her Religion should be irrelevant.

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 Message 1 by Brad, posted 06-01-2005 2:23 PM Brad has replied

Replies to this message:
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Brad
Member (Idle past 4788 days)
Posts: 143
From: Portland OR, USA
Joined: 01-26-2004


Message 4 of 308 (213166)
06-01-2005 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hrun
06-01-2005 2:38 PM


First of all, thank you for your reply Jar. I was hoping for a fundamentalist reply, but it's always good to be reminded that Christians are sensible people too.
Hrun...this is not what I asked. Would you care to make a comment on if you personally would support my hypothetical?
Brad

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22393
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 5 of 308 (213167)
06-01-2005 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
06-01-2005 2:31 PM


Maybe I watch too much hockey, but I thought the closing words of the national anthem were, "Oh, Canada!"
I think the OP needs responses from the religious right before a discussion can develop. How would this segment of the country feel about a President who prayed three times daily toward Mecca? Who uttered phrases in public like, "Allah be praised!" Who attended mosque?
--Percy

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GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 6 of 308 (213169)
06-01-2005 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
06-01-2005 2:31 PM


I'm Canadian but I can reply as a Christian, although I'm probably not a fundamentalist, as you would likely define it. As far as I am concerned, one of the fundamental Christian foundations is freedom. Freedom means self-determination and if the majority of the population determine that a Muslim should be head of government then so be it.
On the other level it doesn't mean that anyone regardless of their faith has to vote for the individual or like what it is they do. In the last election in the US the voters knew what Bush stood for and a majority supported it. The voters who didn't support him may not like what he does, but that's the way things go. They don't allow it or disallow it, but do what they can through the political process. The same would be true with a Muslim head of state.
If the majority voted for a Muslim who did what you suggest then those that didn't support him/her would just have to accept the result, but you seem to suggest that they should also have to like it.

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Hrun
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 308 (213179)
06-01-2005 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Brad
06-01-2005 2:47 PM


Shadow writes:
Hrun...this is not what I asked. Would you care to make a comment on if you personally would support my hypothetical?
Sorry, you are absolutely correct, it is not directly what you asked. My reply would be: Yes, absolutely, anybody regardless of their religion, race or sex should and could be President.
Upon re-reading your first post I realize that I am actually not qualified to answer your question, since it is not directly addressed at me.

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Brad
Member (Idle past 4788 days)
Posts: 143
From: Portland OR, USA
Joined: 01-26-2004


Message 8 of 308 (213181)
06-01-2005 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by GDR
06-01-2005 2:51 PM


I'm not suggesting that Christians have to like it. I'm trying to find out on what basis a fundamentalist Christian would reject an Islamic president. But as was said earlier, we'll have to wait for the right to reply before we can have any kind of interesting debate.
Brad

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 9 of 308 (213723)
06-03-2005 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brad
06-01-2005 2:23 PM


Shadow, I have never heard of a Christian fundamentalist that would seek to stop a Muslim from praying, period, as long as it was not disruptive. I think your post does not reflect an accurate view of Christian fundamentalism, but maybe you need to define that term.
I would think that a secular-minded president would be far more likely to stop prayer, Muslim, Christian or otherwise in the White House than a Christian "fundamentalist" would.
But maybe, reading a little closer, you are talking about a Muslim president?
Well, I think a great many people, fundamentalist and otherwise, would not want a Muslim president at this stage in our history, 911 and all. I don't think having a religious view has a lot to do with it either.
I could see some Christian fundamentalists supporting a Muslim of a certain sort over a secular politician. Let's say the Muslim really is a moderate Muslim and supports the whole concept of absolute freedom of religion for the individual, but is supportive of the general concept of honoring God, and accepts strong moral principles to a degree, but not trying to adopt Sharia, then I could see a Muslim garnering support but at present, he would not get off the ground politically.
But central to much of Islam is the belief that societies must accept Sharia. I would hope that no one, Christian or otherwise, would support someone with those views.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 10 of 308 (213725)
06-03-2005 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brad
06-01-2005 2:23 PM


i'm no fundy, but.
i am fundamentalist about the principles my country was founded upon.
Would a Christian fundamentalist be willing to have someone of Islamic faith in the whitehouse?
i would be.
Would a Christian fundamentalist be willing to allow the person to pray to their God and seek guidance for this country?
publicly in speeches? no. they can do whatever they want in private. (same stance regard christian presidents, btw)
Would a Christian be willing to support this president's action to have Islamic prayers at football games and school events?
allow, yes. force, no.

אָרַח

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Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 308 (213767)
06-03-2005 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Percy
06-01-2005 2:50 PM


quote:
I think the OP needs responses from the religious right before a discussion can develop. How would this segment of the country feel about a President who prayed three times daily toward Mecca? Who uttered phrases in public like, "Allah be praised!" Who attended mosque?
It's five times a day sir.
And although I'm not a US citizen, if there ever be a Muslim US president I'm sure the world will be a very different place. And it will show that the US [if the Muslim president is democratically elected, and assuming he is elected because of competence, not some strange circumstances such as the majority of the US population convereted to Islam or something] truly achieve an ideal secularized democracy.

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PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6873 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 12 of 308 (213820)
06-03-2005 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Andya Primanda
06-03-2005 5:52 AM


[quote] if there ever be a Muslim US president I'm sure the world will be a very different place

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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 13 of 308 (213834)
06-03-2005 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Percy
06-01-2005 2:50 PM


Islamic leadership for America ?
I think this is a very fair question to ask of the religious right.
But they have one advantage in demanding special treatment for Christianity. It is, in various ways, embodied in various premises of our constitution where other religions are not, as Archnophilia has pointed out. IMO, that was a mistake, but one the religious right will always use to their advantage. I happen to believe that any society that includes diverse cultures and religions should have completely secular government in order to assure equitable treatment of all citizens. Personally, I would probably be even more appalled at any leadership that proclaimed to be guided by islamic priniciples than those claiming Christian ones - that would just be the greater of two evils.
This message has been edited by EZscience, 06-03-2005 10:13 AM

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Brad
Member (Idle past 4788 days)
Posts: 143
From: Portland OR, USA
Joined: 01-26-2004


Message 14 of 308 (213839)
06-03-2005 11:36 AM


No right response.
Well, the right is not responding...so I'll post what I'm getting at here. I assumed (I know assuming makes an ass out of you and me) that the right's response would be to not want someone of a different faith in office because they would be worshiping a false God, and be unable to hold up american ideals. But to an atheist every God is just as false as another. So by the same logic that they would not want someone in office praying to mecca three times a day, so an atheist does not want a Christian in office seeking a direction for this country from their God. This is all I was getting at. If the right wants to give an answer as to why someone of the islamic faith should be denied office, and a christian should be granted office...that could be interesting.
Brad

Replies to this message:
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PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6873 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 15 of 308 (213994)
06-03-2005 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by PecosGeorge
06-03-2005 10:25 AM


Looks like the dog ate my question.
Question being.....how would a muslim president achieve 'the world would be a different place'? Could you give me a brief outline?
Thank you. The dog is off cookies.

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
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