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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and the bible yet again
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1 of 23 (156915)
11-07-2004 3:26 AM


Despite so many freaking threads in the past that have repeatedly shown that the bible does not condemn homosexuality or homosexuals, we still find gay bashers here and there ahem *paisano* cough cough. Here is your chance. Show us all why I am going straight to hell after I die. Show us, directly from the bible, why it's a sin.
This should be good.

Hate world.
Revenge soon!

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by doctrbill, posted 11-07-2004 10:53 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 11 by dpardo, posted 11-08-2004 8:20 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 13 by arachnophilia, posted 11-08-2004 9:48 PM coffee_addict has not replied
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 2 of 23 (157069)
11-07-2004 8:52 PM


Hey, yo, admins, what's wrong with this proposal?

Hate world.
Revenge soon!

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 3 of 23 (157073)
11-07-2004 9:03 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 4 of 23 (157088)
11-07-2004 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
11-07-2004 3:26 AM


Lam writes:
Show us all why I am going straight to hell after I die. Show us, directly from the bible, why it's a sin.
Two things, dear boy:
A. The modern concept of hell after death is ... well ... modern. The ancients knew that you can't 'give 'em hell' if they're already dead. The whole point of 'giving 'em hell' is to make 'em suffer, before they die. Dead people don't have feelings, you know.
2. No one can show you from the Bible Why fagotry is a 'sin.' They can't only show you the ban on it. It's right there in plain sight you know. It's found in the book of Thou Shalln't Duit, between the prohibition on cotton/wool blends, and the curse on everyone who eats anything that comes out of a pig. You'll find it not far from the ban on marrying non Jews.
All these laws are ultimately reasonable, don't you think?
I mean: Whether you're a heterosexual Hebrew beef rancher allergic to wool undies; or a dickless Jewess goat herder who never learned to safely cook sea food ... God, or somebody, clearly had your best interest at heart when he or she or it made up this wonderful code designed to help you navigate the pre industrial, pre medical, pre Iron Age reality. After all, he/she/it loved you so much that he/she/it was willing to visit somebody important, long ago and far far away so that you could find out, through years of diligently studying dead languages, what terrible things can happen in a world where nothing is Kosher.
Now let that be a lesson to you.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 11-07-2004 3:26 AM coffee_addict has not replied

Angel
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 23 (157159)
11-08-2004 5:39 AM


Leviticus 18:22 defines the issue: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination."
With that said, noone should judge you based upon anything that you do, including your sexual preferences. While I don't agree with your 'way of life', I would never shun you for it. In this case, you asked for reference from Biblical scripture, so I gave it to you. What few Christians seem to remember is the Golden Rule. Maybe, if they tried to clean out their own closets, they would not be so tempted to sort out yours. As for anyone telling you that you are going to hell, just so that they know, that is judging, and I seem to remember a wise man saying "Judge not, least the be judged thyself".

Angel

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Dr Jack, posted 11-08-2004 5:55 AM Angel has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 6 of 23 (157163)
11-08-2004 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Angel
11-08-2004 5:39 AM


Welcome to EvC, Angel.
Leviticus does indeed contain that sanction, but and this is a big but I feel: it also condemns the wearing of clothes of mixed fabrics, includes instructions for selling your daughter into slavery, demands animal sacrifices, tells you the circumstances under which you should stone your family and bans the eating of pigs and shellfish (among other things). I'm guessing you don't actually either agree with, or practice any of the above, why then if you're ignoring the other directions (the new covenant and all that) do you think the condemnation of homosexuals still stands?
(And see also: An Open Letter to Dr. Laura)
This message has been edited by Mr Jack, 11-08-2004 05:56 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Angel, posted 11-08-2004 5:39 AM Angel has not replied

Angel
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 23 (157165)
11-08-2004 6:11 AM


Maybe my post wasn't clear. I don't live by the OT, I live by the NT. I was only giving reference to his question. I also didn't say that I felt gays were condemned. I did say that I don't agree with it, I also don't agree with abortion, which according to the Bible, anyone causing a mother to abort only pays a small fine. It doesn't say that they will burn in hell. While I happen to be a Christian, some issues are moral, where everyone has a choice to decide, what is right, for ones self.

Angel

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by coffee_addict, posted 11-08-2004 7:12 PM Angel has not replied
 Message 14 by Yaro, posted 11-08-2004 10:17 PM Angel has not replied

Angel
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 23 (157166)
11-08-2004 6:15 AM


Forgot to say...
Thank You For Welcoming Me To The Discussion Forum! I look forward to talking with you, and everyone aboard!

Angel

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by AdminAsgara, posted 11-08-2004 6:54 PM Angel has not replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 9 of 23 (157418)
11-08-2004 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Angel
11-08-2004 6:15 AM


Re: Forgot to say...
Hi Angel, I wanted to add my welcome.
Glad you felt comfortable jumping right in. To help you get around here at EvC here are a few informative links that all newbies should find useful. One is our Forum Guidelines.
Another is Message 1 which offers formatting help.
Once again, welcome aboard.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Angel, posted 11-08-2004 6:15 AM Angel has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 10 of 23 (157421)
11-08-2004 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Angel
11-08-2004 6:11 AM


Angel writes:
I did say that I don't agree with it...
A reasonable person is someone that has reasons for not agreeing with something. An unreasonable person is someone that have no reason yet not agree with something anyway. Which one are you?
[hint: I'm asking for reasons to why you don't agree with it.]

Hate world.
Revenge soon!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Angel, posted 11-08-2004 6:11 AM Angel has not replied

dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 23 (157430)
11-08-2004 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
11-07-2004 3:26 AM


Lam writes:
Show us, directly from the bible, why it's a sin.
Lam, to my knowledge, the bible doesn't explain why it is a sin.
There is, though, the statement that homosexuality is contrary to God's design:
Romans 1:21-27:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[Emphasis mine.]
It's hard to argue against the intended design (assuming such) seeing as how the male and female anatomy are complementary with regards to sexual intercourse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 11-07-2004 3:26 AM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 23 (157434)
11-08-2004 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by dpardo
11-08-2004 8:20 PM


That's a pretty vague verse.
Moreover, what about this:
quote:
and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Gay people have sex with no greater consequences - less, in fact, since there's no risk of pregnancy - than straight people doing the same acts, so clearly, this verse can't be said to refer to homosexuals.
If it did, then where is the "recompense of their error"? And don't say AIDS - AIDS continues to remain a disease that mostly afflicts straight people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by dpardo, posted 11-08-2004 8:20 PM dpardo has not replied

arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 13 of 23 (157446)
11-08-2004 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
11-07-2004 3:26 AM


uh, yeah. the bible does condemn homosexuality. as someone already posted:
Leviticus 18:22 defines the issue: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination."
sounds pretty rigid to me. but it's not like anyone cares about the REST of leviticus, which was, btw, only addressed to the levites. hence the name.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 11-07-2004 3:26 AM coffee_addict has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6496 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 14 of 23 (157465)
11-08-2004 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Angel
11-08-2004 6:11 AM


Well said Angel!
I like you already

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Angel, posted 11-08-2004 6:11 AM Angel has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 23 (157466)
11-08-2004 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
11-07-2004 3:26 AM


why it's a sin.
Lam, what do you think Romans 1:26,27 means? Does it implicate homosexuality as a sin? It speaks of God giving up on people because of their "vile affections" and goes on to talk about women go changing their "natural use" and going against nature. It speaks also of menleaving the "natural use" of the woman and burning in lust one to another, men with men, in the context of lust. Sounds pretty condemnatory to me. What do you think it is saying and meaning?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 11-07-2004 3:26 AM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
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