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Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Pro-Brownback, Anti-Heliocentrism??? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6011 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
On Blogs 4 Brownback, I read this.
"Heliocentrism is an Atheist Doctrine". It reads like some Grade A snark to me, yet it seems to be a legitimate, established, pro-Brownback blog. I mean, as wingnutty as you would expect an established pro-Brownback blog to be, but sincere. If it's snark or parody, it's an astonishing achievement of planning and execution.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I read through the first 20 or 30 comments and found some relevancy to our own debate here. Sisyphus is having no problem holding his own against a host of scoffers and mockers, by which I mean any fellow geocentrists would very likely see Sisyphus as having triumphed over them. If debate about geocentrism can be so equivocal, we should not be surprised that in evolution debates the results are even more so.
--Percy
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Tusko Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 615 From: London, UK Joined: |
I haven't read it all yet, but I just saw his comment in response to the post:
“Equatorial radius: 6,378.137 km Polar radius: 6,356.752 km You’ll notice the equatorial radius is larger, thus the “bulge”. Try learning something about a subject before popping off about it.” He replies:
114. I notice you use thhe metric system. That automatically makes your calculations suspect. The metric system is pure evil. Comment by Sisyphus ” May 19, 2007 @ 7:46 pm I'm calling him out on that. It HAS to be a parody. Edited by Tusko, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
I've been visiting Fundies Say the Darndest Things! quite a bit lately, and I'm convinced that there is no conceivable idiocy that isn't sincerely believed by somebody.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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Tusko Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 615 From: London, UK Joined: |
Wow, they're pretty good. I wonder though - how difficult would it be to smuggle a quote of your own devising onto the website? Probably not that hard. I notice the one about the mother of the gay son who subsequently killed himself had only been a member for a few posts - presumably just to relate the story. Although this could be completely genuine, it also might indicate a quick 'smash and grab' effort from someone looking for meat for fstdt.
I'm pretty confident that this guy is a parody merchant however. There are several priceless turns of phrase in the comments that I don't think could be the product of anything but a satirist. Whether genuine or not though, the site acts as a pretty frightning expose of the power of the demagogue. As Percy mentioned above, if you squint at the posts, the writer's ultra assured style and delivery often makes it look as though they are winning the argument (disregarding the actual argument itself that is).
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tusko writes: There are several priceless turns of phrase in the comments that I don't think could be the product of anything but a satirist. It's true that idiots are seldom very clever. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I have to agree with Ringo and Percy. This argument includes strawman representations of the current science (no one to my knowledge teaches that the sun is the center of the universe) and it has a link to fixedearth.com -- so it could easily be someone connected with that website.
One thing that is clear after reading many years of posts on sites like this one is that there a large number of deluded people. People who really believe insane things. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Tusko Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 615 From: London, UK Joined: |
The metric system being evil, surely is an indication that the person isn't being entirely serious.
But there is also a rather uncharacteristic haziness from Sisyphus when the conversation turns to the question that the earth should also be considered flat if the bible is to be held in any esteem. In comment 95:
“Doesn’t the bible imply that the world is flat too (i.e. 4 corners)? Is this also disputed by “believers”?” If I could see some links about this, I promise I’ll approach them with an open mind. This seems a little too circumlocutionary for me... rather like they are playing naieve to make some time. Fun though!
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Tusko Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 615 From: London, UK Joined: |
Wow. Temporarily rendered speechless.
ABE: [speech]By http://www.fixedearth.com that is[/speech] Edited by Tusko, : No reason given.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
I just read through it.
While I am still undecided as to whether this is a spoof or not, and I've seen some pretty convincing spoofs in my life, Sisyphus does have a point in the following.
quote: Ok, bare with me for a moment. Just imagine the Earth being truly fixed while the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth. Stop it. Just suspend your disbelief for a second. Also, ignore the fact that there is nothing that we know of that would hold Earth in a fixed position. Just imagine that the Earth is truly fixed with everything else moving around it. The result would be just the same as if the Earth is orbiting the sun. I think this guy has a point... if you ignore everything we know about physics. Added by edit. By the way, this is my favorite one.
quote: Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given. We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Ok, bare with me for a moment. Just imagine the Earth being truly fixed while the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth. Stop it. Just suspend your disbelief for a second. Also, ignore the fact that there is nothing that we know of that would hold Earth in a fixed position. Just imagine that the Earth is truly fixed with everything else moving around it. The result would be just the same as if the Earth is orbiting the sun. Let me take my shirt of first, then I'll bear with you ... You can also do this with the moon and every speck of dust that is in space anywhere. Even any subatomic particle. All you end up with is more math to figure things out for what you want to accomplish. This does not prove that any one frame of reference is correct or incorrect. In each case what we are doing mathematically is taking the frame of reference for a universe where the earth spins in orbit around the center of the solar system (of which the sun is the dominant mass) which spins in orbit around the center of the galaxy which meanders through time and space relative to the mass distribution\gravity distribution of the rest of the universe -- and transform that to any frame of reference of our choosing. Thus in every case the math involves the earth spinning in orbit around the sun. In terms of theory, the more parsimonious concept that still explains all the data is preferred, however this does not mean that it is necessarily correct or proved. Where we can suggest an experiment to determine what frame of reference is correct we need to think outside the Newtonian box: we send a probe directly to the earth north (or south .. or both) pole; it has a nuclear clock, gyroscope and star observation capability so that it keeps oriented to stay stationary or match the spin of the earth (whichever is "true"). As it leaves the solar neighborhood the time frame will change (less mass around it) and the effect we know as dark matter\energy will raise it's head. Prediction: that the spin of the universe relative to the earth will be different on the probe than on earth or the radioactive clock will need a different calibration than an identical one on earth. We can also send an identical probe to ascend directly over the solar north (or south ... or both) pole, and use this to compare the amount of energy needed to maintain the probes in their relative positions and orientations. Prediction: to "solar north" probe will need much less energy to maintain relative position and orientation than the "earth north" probe. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3643 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
Hey Ringo, you owe me some life back
from your site, I found teens-4-christ often quoted so have just wasted the past hour there... Check out this whole thread on music Edited by cavediver, : corrected link
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
RAZD, didn't I say to ignore everything we know about physics? The author of that blog did exactly that, and because of it the fixed Earth makes perfect sense. Remember that Einsteinian and Newtonian physics are wrong and that the metric system is pure evil. Your proposed experiments use all of these.
Enjoy We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Once upon a time I spent a couple hours reading through the teens 4 christ crap. It's places like that that makes me glad I'm not a monkey... I mean christian.
We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
"Who's Jon Swift?" coming from someone who knows who Sisyphus was is plenty to convince me it's satire. I'd like to shake the satirist's hand, though. Very good stuff.
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