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Author
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Topic: The War in Europe
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 511 of 995 (893139)
03-28-2022 11:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 495 by Phat
03-27-2022 9:15 AM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
Phat writes: Think long-range, ringo.
That's what I'm doing. It's the warmongers who are thinking short-range.
Phat writes: Think next 30 years.
Oh, thaaaat's what you call "long-range"? That's conceivably within my lifetime. I was thinking a couple of generations beyond that, say a hundred years.
Phat writes: Oil and gas will become rare and expensive.
Yeah, they've been saying that for sixty years. But that isn't the problem. The problem is that we need to use less of it. So who knows how using less and having less will balance out?
Phat writes: Let us go to a Marxist source!
Why?
Phat writes: I figured you would like the propaganda from the comrades!
Stop it. I have TOLD you more than once that I am NOT a Marxist. YOU are more of a Marxist than I am. YOU are the one who talks about "class struggle".
Phat writes: Why must they pick on the US?
Did you read my post at all? I didn't say one word about the U.S. Here's the entire post: quote:
As a general rule, it's cheaper to trade than to fight a war. Isn't Putin likely to lose more oil/gas sales due to sanctions than he could possibly gain from Ukraine?
You could argue that he's irrational but then why would you suggest rational reasons for what he does?
Respond to the post, not to the fantasies in your head.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 495 by Phat, posted 03-27-2022 9:15 AM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 513 by Percy, posted 03-28-2022 2:15 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 517 by Phat, posted 03-28-2022 10:11 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 512 of 995 (893141)
03-28-2022 2:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 510 by AZPaul3
03-28-2022 10:21 AM
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Re: Ваше здоровье!
And you have a blind man's vision of the whole scenario. Says the person who thinks mockery is substance, and that it's only necessary to make claims and not bother with facts. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 510 by AZPaul3, posted 03-28-2022 10:21 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 513 of 995 (893142)
03-28-2022 2:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 511 by ringo
03-28-2022 11:56 AM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
ringo writes: Respond to the post, not to the fantasies in your head. That's a big ask. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 511 by ringo, posted 03-28-2022 11:56 AM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 514 of 995 (893143)
03-28-2022 3:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 495 by Phat
03-27-2022 9:15 AM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
If we survive 30 years what makes you think oil we have a lot of value? Have you heard of whale oil or even coal? At one time there was a thriving market in buggy whips. In 1870 that would have been thought to be a decent investment. You are incapable of seeing past your next purchase of something.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 495 by Phat, posted 03-27-2022 9:15 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
You are incapable of seeing past your next purchase of something. While pretending that it's not gambling.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 514 by Theodoric, posted 03-28-2022 3:54 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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DrJones*
Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: 08-19-2004 Member Rating: 7.4
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Message 516 of 995 (893145)
03-28-2022 8:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 507 by Percy
03-28-2022 9:17 AM
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Re: Ваше здоровье!
You could start by explaining the apparent contradiction that they're incompetent yet can reduce cities to rubble
because there is a metric fuck ton of them. Quantity has a quality all of it's own. A large idiot is still dangerous. I have no doubt they can turn Kyiv into the next Grozny/Dresden/Hiroshima and that they probably will.
move around pretty much at will inside an invaded country
they can't, they're mostly roadbound due to the Rasputitsa. There are still UKR SOF/TDF/partisans operating behind the lines https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I09fBeM_g0E&ab_channel=Wa... another example of their lack of experience, what is this truck doing running around without any escort?
It is a deadly and effective fighting force. solely because of it's size, if you think the Russian army is full of elite stormtroopers operating bleeding edge equipment then you're wrong.
If too many Americans come to believe that the Russian military is a joke that the Ukraine can handle without assistance,
I've never said that the russians aren't dangerous.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 507 by Percy, posted 03-28-2022 9:17 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 519 by Percy, posted 03-29-2022 9:32 AM | | DrJones* has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 517 of 995 (893146)
03-28-2022 10:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 511 by ringo
03-28-2022 11:56 AM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
ringo writes: I was thinking a couple of generations beyond that, say a hundred years. Just don't get idealistic and imagine a one-world-government. It won't work if the *U.S.* doesn't have a primary say and veto power within it. Granted we need to keep our own authoritarians in check.  China will be the new global boss by 2030 and that in and of itself will be a cause of great concern if, in fact, we become a country of second class citizens.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 511 by ringo, posted 03-28-2022 11:56 AM | | ringo has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 518 of 995 (893147)
03-29-2022 7:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 517 by Phat
03-28-2022 10:11 PM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 517 by Phat, posted 03-28-2022 10:11 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 519 of 995 (893148)
03-29-2022 9:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 516 by DrJones*
03-28-2022 8:18 PM
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Re: Ваше здоровье!
DrJones* writes: You could start by explaining the apparent contradiction that they're incompetent yet can reduce cities to rubble because there is a metric fuck ton of them. Quantity has a quality all of it's own. A large idiot is still dangerous. I have no doubt they can turn Kyiv into the next Grozny/Dresden/Hiroshima and that they probably will. I think you have a comic book view of the Russian military, but whatever the reality of how they accomplish their military goals, even if it's through sheer numbers that hide the incompetence, if they can win the war then those details don't matter. Whatever military success Russia has, it's cold comfort to say, "But look at how ineptly they did it."
Your evidence is a YouTube video of the ambush of a single truck, with terrain in the background that shows no signs of rasputitsa.
another example of their lack of experience, what is this truck doing running around without any escort? Good question, but you're taking sparse and very weak data points to draw broad conclusions inconsistent with the amount of destruction brought about in large swathes of Ukraine.
It is a deadly and effective fighting force. solely because of it's size, if you think the Russian army is full of elite stormtroopers operating bleeding edge equipment then you're wrong. No one, and especially not me, has argued that. You quoted me calling it a "deadly and effective fighting force," and that's what I believe. That is consistent with the amount of destruction we see in Ukraine, especially in the cities.
If too many Americans come to believe that the Russian military is a joke that the Ukraine can handle without assistance,
I've never said that the russians aren't dangerous. That's the key factor, isn't it? Calling them idiots and inexperienced and ineffective and filled with soldiers "who have have just barely learned the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground" conveys the opposite of the impression that they're dangerous. If you truly believe the Russian military is a dangerous force to be reckoned with then please dispense with or at least quality all your contrary nonsense that tells people you believe the opposite. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 516 by DrJones*, posted 03-28-2022 8:18 PM | | DrJones* has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 520 of 995 (893150)
03-29-2022 11:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 517 by Phat
03-28-2022 10:11 PM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
Phat writes: Just don't get idealistic and imagine a one-world-government.
I never have. Do you read my posts at all? Seriously, take notes if you have to but stop attributing to me what you pull out of your ass.
Phat writes: It won't work if the *U.S.* doesn't have a primary say and veto power within it.
Don't be silly. The U.S. will never have veto power over anything.
Phat writes: Granted we need to keep our own authoritarians in check.
Right now, your authoritarians - and that includes you - are the most dangerous (human) force on earth. Next to them, Putin is a saint.
Phat writes: China will be the new global boss by 2030...
We learned a long time ago that your predictions are worthless.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 517 by Phat, posted 03-28-2022 10:11 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 524 by Phat, posted 03-29-2022 3:23 PM | | ringo has replied | | | Message 527 by Phat, posted 03-29-2022 3:43 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 521 of 995 (893151)
03-29-2022 12:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 517 by Phat
03-28-2022 10:11 PM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
It won't work if the *U.S.* doesn't have a primary say and veto power within it.
Then it would be US hegemony, wouldn't it? Why should the US be in charge?
we become a country of second class citizens.
We already are. Thanks to right-wing policies that give everything to the wealthy.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 517 by Phat, posted 03-28-2022 10:11 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 522 by jar, posted 03-29-2022 3:08 PM | | Theodoric has not replied | | | Message 526 by Phat, posted 03-29-2022 3:33 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 522 of 995 (893152)
03-29-2022 3:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 521 by Theodoric
03-29-2022 12:06 PM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
We just barely make it into Second Class. Our Health Care system is certainly not up to Second Class standards much less First Class.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 521 by Theodoric, posted 03-29-2022 12:06 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 525 by Phat, posted 03-29-2022 3:27 PM | | jar has replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8529 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 523 of 995 (893153)
03-29-2022 3:09 PM
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Retreat
I read where Russia is saying they are adopting a new strategy, will withdraw from around Kiev and other areas of Ukraine to concentrate on securing the Donbas region which is still being heavily contested. Now we get to see if this elite premier world class military juggernaut can retreat back into Belarus without having to abandon everything and walk.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 524 of 995 (893154)
03-29-2022 3:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 520 by ringo
03-29-2022 11:49 AM
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Re: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
SkepticalRingo writes: The U.S. will never have veto power over anything. We have veto power in the UN Security Council.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 520 by ringo, posted 03-29-2022 11:49 AM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 539 by ringo, posted 03-30-2022 3:10 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 525 of 995 (893155)
03-29-2022 3:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 522 by jar
03-29-2022 3:08 PM
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ARe: Phats Two Cents...Leftist Version
And yet you and most everyone else here does not understand how money works. You correctly said that the Bill will get paid. The bill will get paid when the rest of the world loses the faith in US Treasuries. The Dollar will be replaced as the currency of global trust. We are not sure yet what will replace it, but the investments of many people will absorb the loss. When Nixon decoupled the dollar from Gold in 1970, he said he was "defending the dollar against the speculators. Hard asset commodities are like kryptonite to unbacked fiat currencies...which is now nearly worldwide. Do you honestly think that money is given value merely by a common agreement? If so, what is the asset backing the common agreement?? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 522 by jar, posted 03-29-2022 3:08 PM | | jar has replied |
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