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Author Topic:   An Inconvenient Truth
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 31 of 119 (341769)
08-20-2006 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
08-20-2006 1:29 PM


Re: Global Warming
What is speculation is that the earth was once connected.
No speculation. The lines of force of the Earth's magnetic field "stripes" iron-bearing igneous rocks as they cool, just like the magnetic stripes on a hard drive.
The only way that the stripes of rocks from that time period line up is if the munge all the continents together into a supercontinent. We can verify this because today's new igneous rocks get striped in the same way and we can see how the stripes line up according to today's position of continents. And when we line up the stripes per time period, it's like we get a time-lapsed movie of the Earth's history of continental drift.
You can't make up that kind of data, that kind of convergence.
In all of the Pangea simulations, they have to shrink Greenland and Africa by 30% to make it fit.
Well, Africa's growing even now, right out of the Great Rift Valley. So obviously it would be smaller in the past. I'm not familiar with Greenland's tectonic situation, but most of its "land" area is actually nothing but ice, so obviously it was smaller in a warmer past.
If you say so, then why couldn't the Warming effect be apart of this natural cycle that occurs every few million years.
Because the warming trend is far more precipitous than any warming trend we've been able to detect in the Earth's past, and it's happening at the exact same time that we're dumping billions of tons of CO2 and other gases into the atmosphere.
Look, you tell me. You walk into a darkened room that you've never been in, and you flip a switch. The lights come on. Now, do you really have to tear open the walls and follow the wires to come to the conclusion that the lights come on when you flip the switch? Isn't that a fair bit more likely than some kind of fairy story about "natural cycles of lights coming on, just at the same time you happened to flip a totally unconnected switch"?
The thing is - we have torn open the walls and followed the wires. We know that atmospheric CO2 is a greenhouse gas, from lab tests. We know it has a warming effect when you dump an assload of it into an atmosphere.
Reptiles hiss, they don't growl.
No, reptiles growl. Komodo dragons growl, monitor lizards growl. I take it you don't know many herpetologists?
And the viewer is under the assumption that this is an absolute certainty.
It's just TV. Don't stress it. Do you have the same kind of coronary when Star Wars comes on and they act like you can really choke somebody with the Force? I doubt it. I don't complain when they treat Jesus like a real historical figure, either.
But how have they come to such conclusions by looking at fragmented bone?
Bones tell a lot. In particular they tell what kind of muscles they were attached to. They tell where they were located. To the trained eye, bones tell a lot. Maybe you should do some research about the stories bones can tell instead of dismissing the work of people who, frankly, know considerably more than you do.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by MangyTiger, posted 08-20-2006 9:39 PM crashfrog has replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 119 (341777)
08-20-2006 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Hyroglyphx
08-20-2006 12:49 AM


Re: Global Warming
But the way the media presents it just frightens people like my mother.
Is your mother startled when smoke detectors go off? Better disconnect those nasty things! You are absolutely right. The media should stop informing us about possible disasters. Might upset the old folks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-20-2006 12:49 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 33 of 119 (341778)
08-20-2006 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
08-20-2006 1:29 PM


Another Hovind PRATT
Perhaps, but one thing I do know. In all of the Pangea simulations, they have to shrink Greenland and Africa by 30% to make it fit.
Here is your evident source aka Kent Hovind, and a response:
KH: and I'm tellin' you if you look at a map you will find out, in order to get Pangaea, to get Africa and South America to fit together, for instance, they had to shrink Africa 40%. They do not fit unless you shrink Africa 40%. You know, get an earth science textbook and look up Pangaea, and you will see Mexico and all of Central America, you know Belize, well, not Belize. Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama - they're all gone. They took 'em out. They twisted two continents clockwise and twisted another one counterclockwise.
I challenge anyone who buys this hooey to visit any of a number of great plate tectonics sites, including Deconstructing Pangaea and The Breakup of Pangea which show the actual movement of the plates. What Hovind sees as a change in size is either wishful thinking or a change in the type of map projection he is used to seeing. As for Central America, it is not a matter of taking it out to get the continents to fit; it is that much of Central America did not exist until the Tertiary, a fact that can be substantiated by fossil and geological evidence.
Source: Account Suspended
I challenge anyone to actually look at a globe (not a Mercator projection) and tell me that either continent would require resizing. Also remember, it is the continental shelves that fit, not the coastline, but in this case its still pretty close.
Sheesh NJ, IMHO it would be a full-time job for anyone to just keep up with every unexamined falsehood from others of, to put it mildly, dubious reputation, that you manage to spout as:
quote:
one thing I do know
Now back to global warming.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-20-2006 1:29 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 34 of 119 (341780)
08-20-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by anglagard
08-20-2006 5:58 PM


Re: Another Hovind PRATT
OMG! I didn't even bother to look it up, because a smaller Africa actually seemed reasonable.
If I had known that it was just that Kent Hovind was such a dumbass that he didn't know how to look at a map... seriously, NJ. You need to be bringing your A-game, here.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 35 of 119 (341784)
08-20-2006 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-19-2006 11:02 PM


Re: Global Warming
What if the apparent Warming effect so happened to be a natural cycle of the earth.
...I have not seen the movie and ...
So you are voicing opinion without having studied the available information? Just on what you have picked up from the media coverage (and the conservative party line)?
Putting it off as "a natural cycle of the earth" does not mitigate
  • the effect it will have on the planet and all the species living on it, or
  • our responsibility for contributions to it.
    We cannot deny that industrial and popular use of hydrocarbon fuels have contributed to global warming. See Crashfrogs graphs at Message 100 -- like these:
    and
    Do you think this trend is not happening?
    If you concur that it is happening, do you think we should do nothing about it?
    That's the question eh? Wallow in apathy or act to curtail what effects we can curtail but what means we can employ?
    Enjoy.

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  • This message is a reply to:
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    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 36 of 119 (341789)
    08-20-2006 7:48 PM
    Reply to: Message 24 by Hyroglyphx
    08-20-2006 12:54 AM


    Re: Global Warming
    quote:
    Aside from which, Siberia was once a desert. That seems highly unlikely.
    Much of Siberia is a desert.
    Like, it's a desert now.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 24 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-20-2006 12:54 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

      
    riVeRraT
    Member (Idle past 416 days)
    Posts: 5788
    From: NY USA
    Joined: 05-09-2004


    Message 37 of 119 (341799)
    08-20-2006 9:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
    08-19-2006 4:29 PM


    Pat Robertson has admited that global warming is a factor, and wants to do something about it. lol

    This message is a reply to:
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    Replies to this message:
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    MangyTiger
    Member (Idle past 6353 days)
    Posts: 989
    From: Leicester, UK
    Joined: 07-30-2004


    Message 38 of 119 (341806)
    08-20-2006 9:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 31 by crashfrog
    08-20-2006 5:03 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    I'm not familiar with Greenland's tectonic situation, but most of its "land" area is actually nothing but ice, so obviously it was smaller in a warmer past.
    I don't think that's true. It is the case that 81% of Greenland is covered in ice, but the operative word is covered - there is ground underneath the ice.
    That's why Greenland gets mentioned in the context of global warming. If the Greenland ice sheet melts completely it will raise sea levels by about 7m.

    Oops! Wrong Planet

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 31 by crashfrog, posted 08-20-2006 5:03 PM crashfrog has replied

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     Message 39 by RAZD, posted 08-20-2006 10:18 PM MangyTiger has not replied
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    RAZD
    Member (Idle past 1405 days)
    Posts: 20714
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004


    Message 39 of 119 (341814)
    08-20-2006 10:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 38 by MangyTiger
    08-20-2006 9:39 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    From your link:
    The comprehensive analysis found that the amount of ice dumped into the Atlantic Ocean has doubled in the last five years.
    That's a major shift eh? Maybe the George Strait song "Ocean Front Property in Arizona" will become a reality ... life imitating art?
    Ocean Front Property Lyrics - George Strait - Cowboy Lyrics

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    This message is a reply to:
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    crashfrog
    Member (Idle past 1467 days)
    Posts: 19762
    From: Silver Spring, MD
    Joined: 03-20-2003


    Message 40 of 119 (341815)
    08-20-2006 10:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 38 by MangyTiger
    08-20-2006 9:39 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    I don't think that's true.
    It's not. I said "most" when I should have said "a lot" or "some". The ice sheets extend out past the coasts, obviously, and in studying it's geography, I learned that most scientists think that, should those ice sheets melt, Greenland would probably become an archapelego rather than one single mega-island.
    But I was careless with my language.
    That's why Greenland gets mentioned in the context of global warming. If the Greenland ice sheet melts completely it will raise sea levels by about 7m.
    Indeed.

    This message is a reply to:
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    RAZD
    Member (Idle past 1405 days)
    Posts: 20714
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004


    Message 41 of 119 (341816)
    08-20-2006 10:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 37 by riVeRraT
    08-20-2006 9:11 PM


    another robertson scam in the making?
    Pat Robertson ... wants to do something about it.
    Yeah, like he did for Katrina? Sorry if my jaded perspective only sees someone that makes his living from shilling and scamming people as just adding another scam to his list.
    Word is that he diverted money from Katrina aid to {fly\buy} equipment for his gold-mine in s. africa.
    Robertson Katrina aid goldmine - Google Search

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    This message is a reply to:
     Message 37 by riVeRraT, posted 08-20-2006 9:11 PM riVeRraT has replied

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    RAZD
    Member (Idle past 1405 days)
    Posts: 20714
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004


    Message 42 of 119 (341821)
    08-20-2006 10:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 40 by crashfrog
    08-20-2006 10:22 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    I learned that most scientists think that, should those ice sheets melt, Greenland would probably become an archapelego rather than one single mega-island.
    On the bright side it might become green ...

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    we are limited in our ability to understand
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    RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.

    This message is a reply to:
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    kuresu
    Member (Idle past 2513 days)
    Posts: 2544
    From: boulder, colorado
    Joined: 03-24-2006


    Message 43 of 119 (341823)
    08-20-2006 10:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 42 by RAZD
    08-20-2006 10:27 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    yeah, i never did understand why greenland is covered by ice and iceland is covered with green stuff (It does have ice--in the winter, but it's still a lot more green).
    if greenland's ice does melt, as least one of the two names will make sense.

    All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 42 by RAZD, posted 08-20-2006 10:27 PM RAZD has replied

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    RAZD
    Member (Idle past 1405 days)
    Posts: 20714
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004


    Message 44 of 119 (341824)
    08-20-2006 10:40 PM
    Reply to: Message 43 by kuresu
    08-20-2006 10:37 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    Don't you know? It's all about real-estate advertising. Eric the Red sold Greenland as a better Iceland.

    Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 43 by kuresu, posted 08-20-2006 10:37 PM kuresu has replied

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    kuresu
    Member (Idle past 2513 days)
    Posts: 2544
    From: boulder, colorado
    Joined: 03-24-2006


    Message 45 of 119 (341829)
    08-20-2006 10:57 PM
    Reply to: Message 44 by RAZD
    08-20-2006 10:40 PM


    Re: Global Warming
    ahh, so it was all about the moola (stupid real estate agents)
    Too bad the mini ice age occurred and took my ancestors out of greenland and america.

    All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

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