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Author Topic:   fuzzy particles
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 11 (138439)
08-31-2004 11:38 AM


Ok, I was thinking about this the other day and I need someone to tell me if I'm crazy or not.
We are made of nothing but particles, particles which hold together organic molecules and molecules which hold together groups of cells and groups of cells that hold together the body as a whole.
The mind is organic as well and can't live without the brain matter that comprises it. We can take pieces out of that brain to prove that.
So the mind and body are physical and based on decaying organic matter. Here's my jump:
What are we then? A hologram?
It's hard to express the feeling I get knowing that all we are is a biped of the planet Earth, Solar System, Orion Spiral Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Local Supercluster. Made out of 5.1 x 10^27 atoms, with 1.8 x 10^28 electrons and the same number of protons, and 1.4 x 10^28 neutrons. I feel like a fuzz of particles bound by the body and mind. I feel synthetic. Am I the only one?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 08-31-2004 11:42 AM Mission for Truth has replied
 Message 4 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-31-2004 11:52 AM Mission for Truth has replied
 Message 7 by 1.61803, posted 08-31-2004 5:24 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 2 of 11 (138445)
08-31-2004 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
08-31-2004 11:38 AM


Emergent property
What are we then? A hologram?
We are an "emergent property" of our brain. I think if you google that (and I've spelled it right) you might get enough to get an idea of the meaning. Another expression is we are "more than the sum of our parts".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 11:38 AM Mission for Truth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 11:45 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 11 (138447)
08-31-2004 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by NosyNed
08-31-2004 11:42 AM


Re: Emergent property
Thank you ned, I will check that out.

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 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 08-31-2004 11:42 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 11 (138450)
08-31-2004 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
08-31-2004 11:38 AM


I feel like a fuzz of particles bound by the body and mind. I feel synthetic. Am I the only one?
I used to feel like that sometimes, but my dealer was my ex-girlfriend's brother. So I'm tapped out on that front.

"Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine, it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read, 'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous, and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.' The page has been universally condemned by church leaders."
-Rob Grant and Doug Naylor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 11:38 AM Mission for Truth has replied

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 Message 5 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 12:01 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 11 (138455)
08-31-2004 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dan Carroll
08-31-2004 11:52 AM


Haha, shitty for you, better start growing.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 12:02 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

  
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 11 (138456)
08-31-2004 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Mission for Truth
08-31-2004 12:01 PM


I feel like that too when I look at my avatar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 12:01 PM Mission for Truth has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 7 of 11 (138566)
08-31-2004 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Mission for Truth
08-31-2004 11:38 AM


The holographic universe
Mission for truth writes:
what are we then? A hologram?
There is actually a theory that the universe is a hologram.
Google= Holographic universe I read a pretty cool article there.
The article contended that perhaps the reason particle entanglement happens is because things are actually not separate. Things may be all one stuff and separateness is an illusion. For instance the article does a thought experiment where you are put in a basement with 2 tv monitors and in the living room upstairs is 2 cameras pointed at different angles at 1 aquarium with 1 fish in it. Down in the basement you are watching the 2 monitors and have no idea that the same fish is on your monitors, but you notice that every time monitor 1 fish moves left monitor 2 fish moves slightly down. And if monitor 2 fish move to a angle the monitor 1 fish move in the other direction. Your frame of reference gives the appearence of two different fish. Just like particle 1 move left and particle 2 move right in quantum entanglement/ bells theorum. Maybe there is not 2 particles, maybe they are one in the same. Maybe everything in the universe like a hologram is a complete picture of a whole. Then again maybe not. A web page that points a browser to a different page after zero seconds *edit to include link and not be lazy..lol
This message has been edited by 1.61803, 08-31-2004 04:41 PM

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Mission for Truth, posted 08-31-2004 11:38 AM Mission for Truth has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Asgara, posted 08-31-2004 6:18 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2324 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 8 of 11 (138587)
08-31-2004 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by 1.61803
08-31-2004 5:24 PM


Re: The holographic universe
I read an interesting book several years ago, The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.
I don't remember too much about it except that it used the concept to fit paranormal issues into quantum mechanics. (I think )

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by 1.61803, posted 08-31-2004 5:24 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1525 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 9 of 11 (138774)
09-01-2004 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Asgara
08-31-2004 6:18 PM


Re: The holographic universe
Ya Asgara I read some articles about it and was diggin it until he started trying to incorporate the metaphysical into it. For instance some shaman with the ability to make things disappear and etc..that was pushing it just a wee bit IMO.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Asgara, posted 08-31-2004 6:18 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 11 (138910)
09-01-2004 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by 1.61803
09-01-2004 11:14 AM


Re: The holographic universe
I'm planning on reading the davinci code, do you think I should read angels and demons first?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by 1.61803, posted 09-01-2004 11:14 AM 1.61803 has not replied

  
Mission for Truth
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 11 (139560)
09-03-2004 11:57 AM


To get back on topic
I feel in my opening to this thread I didn't capture the essence of what I was trying to express, so I will try again.
Everything we see while we are conscious is processed by what the eyes pick up and transfer to the brain which makes sense out of all the stimuli. Outside the "mind" is nothing but ordinary matter that is made (birth etc, lets not break any thermodynamic laws just yet) and destroyed. IF the mind is artifical as well, by my definition for artifical I simply mean it's a direct product of the physical structure of the brain, then what are we really besides complex organic life forms? So, my guess is the mind and body is inherent and natural. Any suggestions?

  
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