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Author Topic:   Is it necessary to provide the Vatican's numbering system?
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1152 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 1 of 25 (607468)
03-02-2011 2:32 PM


-
Sample of answers often posted,
quote:
.. you haven't provided the scripture you're referring to
-
If the scribes asked the lamb to provide a scripture reference (book, chapter, and verse) and bible translation,
would that be necessary?
That's not necessary because every fragment of ancient writing is self-evident. The ancient writings are evidence for themselves
-
If you recognize the alleged authority of any Archbishop then use the reference number of verse and chapter division that they printed in the bible for themselves.
If you don't recognize the authority of the State of Vatican then don't use it since every verse division number pertains to them since 1560 when the fragments were entirelly divided into the verse numbering form.
-
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 03-03-2011 1:49 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied
 Message 6 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-03-2011 4:04 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied
 Message 15 by Omnivorous, posted 03-10-2011 7:36 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2 of 25 (607469)
03-03-2011 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel
03-02-2011 2:32 PM


CraztDiamond7 writes:
If you don't recognize the authority of the State of Vatican then don't use it since every verse division number pertains to them since 1560 when the fragments were entirelly divided into the verse numbering form.
It has nothing to do with recognizing authority. It's just common courtesy to give the references - so people know what you're refering to.

You can have brevity and clarify, or you can have accuracy and detail, but you can't easily have both. --Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-02-2011 2:32 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-03-2011 3:28 PM ringo has replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1152 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 3 of 25 (607470)
03-03-2011 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by ringo
03-03-2011 1:49 PM


Would you call it happiness
ringo writes:
CraztDiamond7 writes:
If you don't recognize the authority of the State of Vatican then don't use it since every verse division number pertains to them since 1560 when the fragments were entirelly divided into the verse numbering form.
It has nothing to do with recognizing authority. It's just common courtesy to give the references - so people know what you're refering to.
-
- To whom the Word belongs - If a book that contains your words is written without numbers of verse divisions,
Would you allow an unauthorized group, whose system is criminal and breaks all of the ten commandments, to divide it into the verse numbering form?
-
And whenever that verse division, that was first printed for themselves, is quoted and spoken as if it was a part of your word
Would you call it happiness?
-
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 03-03-2011 1:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by rueh, posted 03-03-2011 3:32 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 03-03-2011 4:00 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied
 Message 12 by Blue Jay, posted 03-10-2011 3:52 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3661 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 4 of 25 (607471)
03-03-2011 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel
03-03-2011 3:28 PM


Re: Would you call it happiness
crazydiamond 7 writes:
1:1- To whom the Word belongs -
1:2 If a book that contains your words and written without numbers of verse divisions,
1:3 Would you allow an unauthorized group, whose system is criminal and breaks all of the ten commandments, to divide it into the verse numbering form?
1:4 And whenever that verse division, that was first printed for themselves, is quoted and spoken as if it was a part of your word
1:5 Would you call it happiness?
Yes I would.
Edited by rueh, : No reason given.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-03-2011 3:28 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5 of 25 (607472)
03-03-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel
03-03-2011 3:28 PM


Re: Would you call it happiness
CrazyDiamond7 writes:
- To whom the Word belongs - If a book that contains your words is written without numbers of verse divisions,
Would you allow an unauthorized group, whose system is criminal and breaks all of the ten commandments, to divide it into the verse numbering form?
-
And whenever that verse division, that was first printed for themselves, is quoted and spoken as if it was a part of your word
Would you call it happiness?
If I was God, I wouldn't be so petty.

You can have brevity and clarify, or you can have accuracy and detail, but you can't easily have both. --Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-03-2011 3:28 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-10-2011 2:32 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 25 (607473)
03-03-2011 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel
03-02-2011 2:32 PM


Its nice to have the numbering system so that we can look up the verses ourselves and know exactly what the other person is talking about.
If you don't recognize the authority of the State of Vatican then don't use it since every verse division number pertains to them since 1560 when the fragments were entirelly divided into the verse numbering form.
That would be most unhelpful.
Here's what you can do...
Provide the numbering system with the caveat that you don't recongnize the authority of State of Vatican that put them there. Simple, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-02-2011 2:32 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 7 of 25 (607475)
03-03-2011 10:52 PM


Thread Copied from Suggestions and Questions Forum

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1152 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 8 of 25 (608460)
03-10-2011 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
03-03-2011 4:00 PM


Let's come out of this BABY
ringo writes:
CrazyDiamond7 writes:
- To whom the Word belongs - If a book that contains your words is written without numbers of verse divisions,
Would you allow an unauthorized group, whose system is criminal and breaks all of the ten commandments, to divide it into the verse numbering form?
-
And whenever that verse division, that was first printed for themselves, is quoted and spoken as if it was a part of your word
Would you call it happiness?
If I was God, I wouldn't be so petty.
-
But the word does not belong to a god or elohiym; common generic designation for deities in the Middle east.
The word belongs to I AM
EL [the One that Declares]
ELYON [from a celestial place]
If you were as I AM
you would use a verse division number created by whom is of I AM
instead of using the means that were imposed under an alleged authority of an Archbishop and corrupt Cardinals.

If you were as I AM you would declare this, let's come out of her,
-
quote:
From the writing entitled What does coming out of Babylon mean,
A person begins to come out of the things that pertain to Babylon when (s)he will know what names, numbers, signs, and doctrinal images, belonging to the church that has the title ‘Mother’, were mixed in the translations of the bibles;
all things that do not pertain to the Torah nor to the books of the Prophets as originally written such as the word ‘baptism’ originated from the Roman terms Vattsimus (battesimu——augury) and Vaticynius (consecration made through augury or prediction); and images of doctrines of faiths and things that belong to the mixed translation and terminology that was left in the bible for the exclusive use of the State of Vatican and the Roman ordinations.
1st. There is only one woman (church; city; congregation) that calls herself by the title Mother which is also written on her forehead. Therefore the great Babylon is not about too many women but one Mother church; city or congregation.
2nd. A gilded cup of wine. On her forehead the title Mother of beliefs and spiritual fornications [type of love dedicated to images of saints] does not reveal who it is unless there is a woman--church which calls herself by the spiritual title Mother, and offers in her rites and masses for the nations a gilded cup full of the belief that the wine she has drunk is transubstantiated into holy blood.
3rd. A Babylonical; great or big in size. Vaticanus hill is one of the seven hills upon which the city of Rome was built; - A woman sitting upon a scarlet force. Symbolism of the flag of the Vatican's army -- the Swiss cross on a red field ultimately derives from a similar banner of the Roman Empire.
Book of Revelations clears up that the scarlet beast itself is the eighth nation, and is of the seven, for being Rome which in the past was the Roman empire. That is the beast that was and is not.
Therefore, literally, there is an eighth nation -State of Vatican which is of the seven for being of Rome. The scarlet beast; the scarlet force that was (a Roman empire) and is not, lives in the form of reverenced ordination.
. On the day a person comes out of Babylon then (s)he begins to revert the substitutions that had been made to the translations, knowing that the words 1st. Lord 2nd. god (elohim), 3rd. IESVS, JE-SUS (I-HORSE, Sameq, Vav, Sameq, 60,6,60); 4th. Christus; 5th. cross; 6th. crucify; 7th. baptism, 8th. faith (Roman doctrine of fides quae creditur and belief)
had been placed as substitute words for 1st. YHWH/Iahveh; 2nd. EL [ELYON]; 3rd. Iahveh’shua [UNCTION OF I AM]; 4th. Anointed, 5th. tree, 6th. suspend, 7th. Unction, 8th. Emunah--fidelitate--fidelity (hearing rather than working up a belief; understand; having ears to hear; give permanence; remain; endure).
-
Just as the word staff means stick and persons (a body of assistants) at one time, even so the word stick was used before in ancient writings to represent people,
I will gather the stick of Jiusaff (House of Joseph), which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the sticks of the tribes of Ishrael his fellows, and I will gather them all together to the stick of Judah (House of Judah) and make them into One stick in *mine* gathered hands.
Now a word that isn’t unnusual: Baby, which the Four Sticks use not to represent people, because the following Baby is for those who hide their love to depths of life
and ruin dreams that we all knew so,
O Baby, I got to fly — because you know I got to get away from you Baby
The message about who is the Baby from whom the Four Sticks are getting away, was previously sung in Celebration Day,
her name is B’rown, A’white or B’lack, You know her very well
you can hear her cries of mercy as the winners toll the bell
Instead of coming out of her, many are heading to the opposite direction,
There’s a train that leaves the station heading for your destination
But the price you pay to nowhere has increased a dollar more
And if you walk you're gonna get there, tho' it takes a little longer,
And when you see it in the distance you will wring your hands and moan.
The poor ones who take a little longer to get there and the ones who do not take the train nor pay the price one pays to nowhere (tithes of salary), will not be there when Baby fall.
-
-
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 03-03-2011 4:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by fearandloathing, posted 03-10-2011 3:07 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 03-10-2011 6:39 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 9 of 25 (608464)
03-10-2011 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by goldenlightArchangel
03-10-2011 2:32 PM


Re: Let's come out of this BABY
CrazyDiamond7 writes:
ringo writes:
CrazyDiamond7 writes:
- To whom the Word belongs - If a book that contains your words is written without numbers of verse divisions,
Would you allow an unauthorized group, whose system is criminal and breaks all of the ten commandments, to divide it into the verse numbering form?
-
And whenever that verse division, that was first printed for themselves, is quoted and spoken as if it was a part of your word
Would you call it happiness?
If I was God, I wouldn't be so petty.
-
But the word does not belong to a god or elohiym; common generic designation for deities in the Middle east.
The word belongs to I AM
EL [the One that Declares]
ELYON [from a celestial place]
If you were as I AM
you would use a verse division number created by whom is of I AM
instead of using the means that were imposed under an alleged authority of an Archbishop and corrupt Cardinals.

If you were as I AM you would declare this, let's come out of her,
-
quote:
From the writing entitled What does coming out of Babylon mean,
A person begins to come out of the things that pertain to Babylon when (s)he will know what names, numbers, signs, and doctrinal images, belonging to the church that has the title ‘Mother’, were mixed in the translations of the bibles;
all things that do not pertain to the Torah nor to the books of the Prophets as originally written such as the word ‘baptism’ originated from the Roman terms Vattsimus (battesimu——augury) and Vaticynius (consecration made through augury or prediction); and images of doctrines of faiths and things that belong to the mixed translation and terminology that was left in the bible for the exclusive use of the State of Vatican and the Roman ordinations.
1st. There is only one woman (church; city; congregation) that calls herself by the title Mother which is also written on her forehead. Therefore the great Babylon is not about too many women but one Mother church; city or congregation.
2nd. A gilded cup of wine. On her forehead the title Mother of beliefs and spiritual fornications [type of love dedicated to images of saints] does not reveal who it is unless there is a woman--church which calls herself by the spiritual title Mother, and offers in her rites and masses for the nations a gilded cup full of the belief that the wine she has drunk is transubstantiated into holy blood.
3rd. A Babylonical; great or big in size. Vaticanus hill is one of the seven hills upon which the city of Rome was built; - A woman sitting upon a scarlet force. Symbolism of the flag of the Vatican's army -- the Swiss cross on a red field ultimately derives from a similar banner of the Roman Empire.
Book of Revelations clears up that the scarlet beast itself is the eighth nation, and is of the seven, for being Rome which in the past was the Roman empire. That is the beast that was and is not.
Therefore, literally, there is an eighth nation -State of Vatican which is of the seven for being of Rome. The scarlet beast; the scarlet force that was (a Roman empire) and is not, lives in the form of reverenced ordination.
. On the day a person comes out of Babylon then (s)he begins to revert the substitutions that had been made to the translations, knowing that the words 1st. Lord 2nd. god (elohim), 3rd. IESVS, JE-SUS (I-HORSE, Sameq, Vav, Sameq, 60,6,60); 4th. Christus; 5th. cross; 6th. crucify; 7th. baptism, 8th. faith (Roman doctrine of fides quae creditur and belief)
had been placed as substitute words for 1st. YHWH/Iahveh; 2nd. EL [ELYON]; 3rd. Iahveh’shua [UNCTION OF I AM]; 4th. Anointed, 5th. tree, 6th. suspend, 7th. Unction, 8th. Emunah--fidelitate--fidelity (hearing rather than working up a belief; understand; having ears to hear; give permanence; remain; endure).
-
Just as the word staff means stick and persons (a body of assistants) at one time, even so the word stick was used before in ancient writings to represent people,
I will gather the stick of Jiusaff (House of Joseph), which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the sticks of the tribes of Ishrael his fellows, and I will gather them all together to the stick of Judah (House of Judah) and make them into One stick in *mine* gathered hands.
Now a word that isn’t unnusual: Baby, which the Four Sticks use not to represent people, because the following Baby is for those who hide their love to depths of life
and ruin dreams that we all knew so,
O Baby, I got to fly — because you know I got to get away from you Baby
The message about who is the Baby from whom the Four Sticks are getting away, was previously sung in Celebration Day,
her name is B’rown, A’white or B’lack, You know her very well
you can hear her cries of mercy as the winners toll the bell
Instead of coming out of her, many are heading to the opposite direction,
There’s a train that leaves the station heading for your destination
But the price you pay to nowhere has increased a dollar more
And if you walk you're gonna get there, tho' it takes a little longer,
And when you see it in the distance you will wring your hands and moan.
The poor ones who take a little longer to get there and the ones who do not take the train nor pay the price one pays to nowhere (tithes of salary), will not be there when Baby fall.
-
-
Reading that made my head hurt, sounded like so much gibberish to me. I would ask you to explain....but I probably wouldn't understand the answer being as we seem to use the English language much differently. Common words probably have different meanings for you making any explanation you could give me unintelligible to me....but I think you mean the catholic church is bad...I agree...although I feel most religions are self-serving and all about money in the end.
As far as the numbering system goes...well I find it convenient when looking up passages used as reference. When you convince the rest of Christianity to use another system I will use it. Or maybe you can fix all the stuff that's wrong with the whole book...why not, wouldn't be the first time ...right??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-10-2011 2:32 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-10-2011 3:37 PM fearandloathing has replied

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member (Idle past 1152 days)
Posts: 583
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 10 of 25 (608475)
03-10-2011 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by fearandloathing
03-10-2011 3:07 PM


Re: Let's come out of this BABY
fearandloathing writes:
..maybe you can fix all the stuff that's wrong with the whole book..
-
I didn't say that there was anything wrong with the substitutions.
Actually every replacement of words in the whole book was necessary,
for example, who wins when the Tetragrammaton is set apart and separate from the religions,
When one keeps the Tetragrammaton separate from being used in the tradings, then the substitute name for the lamb, Iesus and the title 'lord', that have been used for the interests of the tradings of religion are necessary.
quote:
Sample of answers often posted,
..The removal of the sacred names must be considered evil and a dishonor.
-
Not every translation of scripture is made exclusively for the elected ones.
The translations made for the eighth nation (the State of Vatican) is a sample of things made for the interests of religion and doctrines.
What if the set apart names were not set apart but left for the interests of the trades of religion,
instead of their usage of the substitute names Iesus and lord?
Would that not be a real evil and a dishonor?
quote:
When one keeps the Tetragrammaton separate from being used in the trades, then the substitute name for the lamb, Iesus and the title lord, that have been used for the interests of the tradings of religion are necessary.
-
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update
Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by fearandloathing, posted 03-10-2011 3:07 PM fearandloathing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by fearandloathing, posted 03-10-2011 4:00 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 11 of 25 (608478)
03-10-2011 3:52 PM


wat?
Wat????
Is it necessary to provide the Vaticans numbering system?
Yes if you want to quote chapter and verse as is tradition in most churches.
It is not some evil conspiracy of the Catholic church.

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2697 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 12 of 25 (608479)
03-10-2011 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel
03-03-2011 3:28 PM


Re: Would you call it happiness
Hi, Diamond.
CrazyDiamond7 writes:
If a book that contains your words is written without numbers of verse divisions,
Would you allow an unauthorized group, whose system is criminal and breaks all of the ten commandments, to divide it into the verse numbering form?
And whenever that verse division, that was first printed for themselves, is quoted and spoken as if it was a part of your word
Would you call it happiness?
First, how exactly does an indexing system break the Ten Commandments? For example, what does it have to do with adultery? On second thought, I'm not sure I want to know that.
Next, if somebody thought the volume of discussion and analysis my writings were attracting merited a system of precision organization to facilitate further use of my work, I would be tickled pink: do you realize how much value that would mean they place on my writings?
Finally, why on earth should I call it "happiness"? That's so lame I can't even think of a joke sarcastic enough to mock it adequately.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-03-2011 3:28 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 13 of 25 (608483)
03-10-2011 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by goldenlightArchangel
03-10-2011 3:37 PM


Re: Let's come out of this BABY
I only now know of Tetragrammaton what little I just read in Wiki. Thanks for trying to clear me up on what I read.. I get the point you are shooting for...wasn't sure the how or why. I enjoy learning about any religion, or interpretation of one,along with cultural beliefs of native peoples. I will learn more about tetragrammaton soon, very interesting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-10-2011 3:37 PM goldenlightArchangel has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 14 of 25 (608503)
03-10-2011 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by goldenlightArchangel
03-10-2011 2:32 PM


Re: Let's come out of this BABY
CrazyDiamond7 writes:
If you were as I AM
you would use a verse division number created by whom is of I AM
instead of using the means that were imposed under an alleged authority of an Archbishop and corrupt Cardinals.
As I said, if I was as I AM, I wouldn't be so petty. I'd be glad of any number system that helped make My Holy Word™ easier to understand.
Any I AM WHO IS concerned about such trivialities isn't worthy of my notice.

If you have nothing to say, you could have done so much more concisely. -- Dr Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-10-2011 2:32 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-11-2011 2:24 PM ringo has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 15 of 25 (608510)
03-10-2011 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel
03-02-2011 2:32 PM


All the works of Shakespeare are indexed by act, scene and line number.
It's quite useful to scholars and aficionados alike. No one remembers offhand who indexed them or, by referencing them, agrees with whatever perspective he had.
And Shakespeare was a much better writer than god.


Dost thou think, because thou art virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?
-Shakespeare
Real things always push back.
-William James

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-02-2011 2:32 PM goldenlightArchangel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 03-11-2011 1:41 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
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