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Author Topic:   Religion is Evil!
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 46 of 228 (87379)
02-18-2004 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by mike the wiz
02-18-2004 7:48 PM


Re: spanky spanky naughty Mikey
you didn't answer mike sorry... the real question is if you are incapable of even learning the difference between good and evil should you be punished?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by mike the wiz, posted 02-18-2004 7:48 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by AdminAsgara, posted 02-18-2004 8:53 PM DC85 has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 47 of 228 (87382)
02-18-2004 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by DC85
02-18-2004 8:47 PM


Re: spanky spanky naughty Mikey
PLEASE, lets not turn this into yet another "innocents vs the tree" thread. While I can become caught up in this topic myself, there are a plethora of threads covering this issue. We don't need another.
If you feel an undying need to discuss this issue, please find a more appropriate venue.

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by DC85, posted 02-18-2004 8:47 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Chris
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 228 (87385)
02-18-2004 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by DC85
02-18-2004 7:17 PM


DC85
"Amazing I am not religious and I don't have no will to kill anyone...."
---
You don't have will to kill anyone, because you don't live in a social place like that (because of religions). I tried to give you example, like Moses.. He did live in a place where life has no worth.
The 10 Commandments were not there yet.
And so.. he killed just because he saw somebody beating one Hebrew guy.
Hope you got my point now.
"Did you know Christens have been responsible for a good amount of killings due to the religious differences?"
---
Again you only tell about some Christians, which I did say that people or human are sinners. Give me an evidence stating that becoming a Christian makes your brain behave like a murderer.. then I will agree with your statement about religions.
(Adam n Eve... again)
Did God tempt Adam and Eve? God gave all this world to Adam and Eve, but with only one rule, don't eat from that tree. Not just the world, but the stars also. The stars? Yes, I think so.
(Gen 1:14) "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years"
God made us stars, etc. for us to know the years, seasons and even some birds fly look on the stars also.
The snake who tempt Eve about the knowledge of good and evil.
The snake (satan) IS the sinner.
"Until after they ate the fruit, so they couldn't learn the difference! so where they wrongfully punished? isn't that unjust?"
--
One thing you have to see is.. God give them only ONE rule. NOT to eat from that tree.
Only one rule, but they failed. While God had given them... alot.
To Mike:
Hi Mike, just did't feel good. I did say did't want to make this an Adam n Eve thread and now I did. And also afraid of the mods too.. they look like quite strict.
And thank you for the compliment, really appreciate it.
Take care all.
[EDIT]: upps, sorry Mods.
[This message has been edited by Chris, 02-18-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by DC85, posted 02-18-2004 7:17 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by DC85, posted 02-18-2004 10:58 PM Chris has replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 49 of 228 (87399)
02-18-2004 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Chris
02-18-2004 9:17 PM


Everytime this topic is brought up it never fails you guys seem to misunderstand what we are saying....
So here goes AGAIN
How can you know listening to that ONE AND ONLY rule is the right (or good) thing to do when you are unable to comprehend Good and evil?
this means they are unable to figure out these things
God = good
serpent = Bad
Not listening to God = Bad
According to the Bible they didn't not know good and evil until they ate the fruit.
Also it never says anywhere in that area of the bible that the serpent is satan just to let you know<
[This message has been edited by DC85, 02-18-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Chris, posted 02-18-2004 9:17 PM Chris has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Chris, posted 02-19-2004 7:42 AM DC85 has not replied
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 02-19-2004 8:19 AM DC85 has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 50 of 228 (87423)
02-19-2004 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
02-17-2004 3:14 PM


quote:
Jesus Saves. Moses Invests.
Reminds me of some graffiti I saw once ...
'Jesus Saves. But Peter Scores on the rebound.'
Kind of a soccer thing -- or, as I call it, football

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 02-17-2004 3:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Chris
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 228 (87445)
02-19-2004 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by DC85
02-18-2004 10:58 PM


To DC85:
Sorry DC, I can't answer your questions here, you heard the mod.
(Little info about the serpent, read: Revelation 12:9)
Peter: 'Jesus Saves. But Peter Scores on the rebound.'
But still His team won the match, and He's The Man of The Match.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by DC85, posted 02-18-2004 10:58 PM DC85 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 228 (87448)
02-19-2004 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by DC85
02-18-2004 10:58 PM


They knew NOT...or did they?
I believe that the scenario went like this. You say that they were
unable to comprehend Good and evil
I say that before they ate the fruit, they had no need of an individual comprehension because they merely needed to obey God and allow Him to be their comprehension. Once they fell for the sales line of "Ye shall be as gods" then they ate the fruit and BOOM! They had comprehension. It was at THAT point that they took "Lets Make A Deal" to a whole new level. No longer was it door#1,2,or3. In essence, the view of reality became an infinite number of doors! Before the moment of the Fall, they were naked and unashamed. Why? Because they were covered. God covered them. God was their comprehension. God was their communion! They were unafraid. After the Fall, they were on their own.
[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-19-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by DC85, posted 02-18-2004 10:58 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by DC85, posted 02-19-2004 9:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5032 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 53 of 228 (87464)
02-19-2004 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taqless
02-18-2004 6:18 PM


you can do a databinding to VRML in 2D giving a geometry that may be beyond that yes? I would not be speaking ill.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Taqless, posted 02-18-2004 6:18 PM Taqless has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Taqless, posted 02-19-2004 1:24 PM Brad McFall has replied

  
Taqless
Member (Idle past 5913 days)
Posts: 285
From: AZ
Joined: 12-18-2003


Message 54 of 228 (87501)
02-19-2004 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Brad McFall
02-19-2004 10:43 AM


You specifically stated "a column is not a row". I merely pointed out to you that it can be both when thought of differently, right?
Then seperated sin into "s", "i", and something about EN. I didn't follow that at all, so yeah guess what I said was silly. Maybe you could explain. I don't think one could locate sin even if you were to imply epigenetics here, i.e. specific chromatin states in a developing human embryo "genetic imprinting". Hmmm, I think I'm way off course here in the thread and maybe even what you were suggesting in the first place.
-Taqless

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Brad McFall, posted 02-19-2004 10:43 AM Brad McFall has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Brad McFall, posted 02-20-2004 1:21 PM Taqless has replied

  
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 228 (87570)
02-19-2004 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by DC85
02-17-2004 10:17 PM


DC85,
You say,
I am an agnostic What are your thoughts on that? I WANT FULL HONESTY! NO just being nice I want your opinon about me!
I charge all humans, including you, to bear full responsibility for your humanity. It is evil to be inhuman to others. The actual term for this evil is ab-homination, usually shortened to abomination. If that is your choice is life, I despise you, hate you. Because your neglect of your duty, like a watchman who sleeps on their watch, lets evil in, that destroys us all. "All it takes for evil to triumph is for 'good' men to do nothing."
I'd go after you myself, except that I am convinced that there is a just judge, with a really bad eternal prison at their disposal, who will see that you get your just desserts. If, of course, you have chosen to turn away from your humanity.
Humanity, the distinctives of Homo sapiens, includes will power, being smart, socially interactive and responsible, use of language, amoung other interesting features.
An agnostic, who simply doesn't know something, is responsible to learn. To ignore some source of knowledge is to be ignorant, which is disrespectable, even despicable. Anyone who is agnostic who is not applying themselves to learning, to dispelling their lack of knowledge, is below contempt.
The most important thing to learn, for a human, is the rules for learning, for knowing. This subject, called applied epistemology (as opposed, definately, to historical epistemology), basically sets out certain rules for deciding how likely a given idea is to be true. It sets out the rules for using authority, art, science, and history to evaluate ideas. Agnostics who are not "epistemologically self-conscious," who do not have, because they choose not to learn, any clear rules in mind for learning new ideas, for changing their minds, are destructive to the life of the society in which they live.
Now, some agnostics have been "stumbled" by their education or training, taught no or demonstrably bad applied epistemology. If they are pursuing the most respectable wise teacher they know personally, to correct this educational deficiency, good for them. I will lay down my life for them, and count it an honor to do so. But not if they decide that "it is my opinion, and it is very, very true." If they decide, in other words, that the current state of their knowledge or lack of knowledge is fine, that the ideas they believe in are so sure to be true that they needn't examine them, well, the sooner they are destroyed, the better. My job then is simply to expose this decision, so God can justly get rid of them, the way our farmers get rid of mad-cows or bird-flu chickens.
Now, ideas about God are important. Most humans believe that higher, spiritual beings exist in our world. Someone agnostic about such ideas better be doing all they can to get an applied epistemology that allows them to evaluate these ideas, and better be applying that epistemology to making the most educated decision about it they can. Here's what is at stake.
First, God Himself, if He is out there as described and believed, is perfect love. Disbelieving in Him will therefore cause Him perfect pain. If you have ever had someone you love turn away from and ignore (be ignorant of) you, you know what this means. Also, when a great, passionate lover is betrayed or ignored, life becomes miserable for their whole household. "When momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." Again, the wrath of a passionate lover when their beloved is hurt by someone, is terrible. When someone ignorant of the great lover purposely or accidently harms, say, their beloved little child, expect trouble.
Second, the rest of us need the believing prayers of everyone. Anyone not praying is leaving the rest of us open to evil, the worse kind of evil.
Well, that's enough. If you are agnostic, get busy. Find a wise teacher that you know personally, and ask them to teach you applied epistemology, how you know whether or not a given idea is likely to be true. Or be contemptible by folks like me.
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by DC85, posted 02-17-2004 10:17 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Gilgamesh, posted 02-19-2004 10:20 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied
 Message 60 by MrHambre, posted 02-20-2004 6:44 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied
 Message 62 by Mammuthus, posted 02-20-2004 7:39 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 379 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 56 of 228 (87623)
02-19-2004 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
02-19-2004 8:19 AM


Re: They knew NOT...or did they?
No Matter what you guys never get the point of what we are saying.
you agree that they weren't able to comprehend the Good and Evil and right and wrong(good and evil) correct? Yet you think they should have done the right thing? I hate to say it but that makes 0 sense..... if you don't get it this time I will stop its not worth the time... I have done this WAY to many times...
ok here goes again.
If you don't comprehend the difference between Good and evil ... how Can you know that obeying God's command was the right thing to do?
As soon as someone told them different they did that as they cannot tell the difference between the 2 .... understand? If not I give up... It will mean you are too Blinded by your faith to see the flaws in what you believe to be true...
But the way I see it your God was VERY careless.... and Unjust
[This message has been edited by DC85, 02-19-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 02-19-2004 8:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 02-20-2004 12:10 AM DC85 has replied
 Message 59 by Chris, posted 02-20-2004 5:57 AM DC85 has not replied

  
Gilgamesh
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 228 (87631)
02-19-2004 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Stephen ben Yeshua
02-19-2004 4:09 PM


Oh Dear God!
For Christ's sake Stephen where did this rant come from????
Go do some reading yourself: look up the definition of agnostic and go waste some more time reading about Bible Codes so these guys can get on with their chat without being subjected to your diatribe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 02-19-2004 4:09 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 228 (87642)
02-20-2004 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by DC85
02-19-2004 9:08 PM


Re: They knew NOT...or did they?
DC85 writes:
If you don't comprehend the difference between Good and evil ... how Can you know that obeying God's command was the right thing to do?
I think that I get what you are saying. And God knew what was going to happen. For us to judge God as careless and unjust presupposes that we know some principle that is higher than Gods purpose. I say that we do not. We believe that God is just and good. Even if He was not, there is not much we can do about it. On a hijacked plane, people may fight the authority at the risk of death. Why fight a God who is Omnipotant? What even gave us the desire to do so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by DC85, posted 02-19-2004 9:08 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Chris
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 228 (87670)
02-20-2004 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by DC85
02-19-2004 9:08 PM


Re: They knew NOT...or did they?
Let's see it in this way..
Adam did see what God can do, he did see God made animals, he knew God made Eve from him.
So.. what did Adam know?
Let's see:
- God made the garden (world).
- God made plants and animals.
- God made him.
- God made him a companion.
- God told him to take care of the garden.
- God is full of love (gave what Adam needed & allowed him to named the animals).
- God gave him rule, a very special rule.
So he knew that God IS the BOSS.
(It was Eve the source of this, but it's not the issue here since they can exchange informations, so no different..I will use they).
After knowing all that, they believe more in a serpent than God? Just because the serpent said:
- Ye shall not surely die;
- For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
So, they doubted God, because:
1. They want to be as God, know good and evil.
2. They trust their own reasoning than trust in God. (Some how same like us).
3. Just a stranger or somebody said that.
They don't have to be wise to know that the serpent is wrong.
Actually, I think the fruit gives a consciousness, not wisdom.
"6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,"
This could be use on the Bible to discribe what Eve thought about the tree. Satan used that only to make Eve tempted. And satan would not say to Eve that the fruit only gives consciousness.
So after ate the fruit, they become conscious that they are naked.
And after that you can read Adam said, "I was afraid, because I was naked and I hid myself."
If you are naked are you afraid? I think Adam felt guilty but he did not know, so he thought that the feeling was there because he was naked. While Adam & Eve had sewed fig leaves to cover their nakedness...
(Nah..forget it, I quess it's just another stupid assumption).
DC: "how Can you know that obeying God's command was the right thing to do?"
---
Because they knew God is the Boss.
DC: "As soon as someone told them different they did that as they cannot tell the difference between the 2 .... understand?"
---
They knew those 2 were againsting each other. They knew who is The Boss. Yet they prefered not to trust The Boss, instead they trusted the stranger, cause they wanted to be the boss or like the Boss.
After wrote this, I got a feeling the histoy is coming back. Humans also want to be the boss and also prefer to trust their own reasoning. (Just oppinion)
And like what Stephen said, if you love somebody, care, give everything they need, etc. Then someday, somehow, that somebody prefer to trust to a stranger than you (while you espesially told your love one about that). How would you feel? And don't forget God is full of love or The source of it.
Hope this help.
Uh..I broke my promise again. Now, I won't write here about Adam and Eve anymore. If I did, you could ban me for breaking the forum's rule.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by DC85, posted 02-19-2004 9:08 PM DC85 has not replied

  
MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1392 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 60 of 228 (87671)
02-20-2004 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Stephen ben Yeshua
02-19-2004 4:09 PM


An Agnostic Gets Busy
Stephen ben Yeshua,
I think you for your Christian charity. I too consider myself agnostic. I'm encouraged by the words of a believer such as yourself that, simply because I happen to have different opinions on spiritual or philosophical matters, I'm 'despicable,' as well as 'below contempt.' Saying about agnostics that 'the sooner they are destroyed, the better' demonstrates just the sort of tolerance and forgiveness that Jesus preached. I appreciate your offer to 'go after you myself,' but I'd hate to take you away from your important prayer-studies and your lifelong committment to following the example of Christ. And, as you rightly state, at some point 'God can justly get rid of them, the way our farmers get rid of mad-cows or bird-flu chickens.' I know Christ spoke of humanity as his flock, so I suppose similar livestock metaphors are theologically appropriate.
Again, I'm grateful for your display of love and acceptance.
regards,
Esteban "Mad Cow" Hambre

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 02-19-2004 4:09 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

Replies to this message:
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