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Author Topic:   "THE EXODUS REVEALED" VIDEO
Prince Lucianus
Inactive Member


Message 419 of 860 (128172)
07-27-2004 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by Hydarnes
07-27-2004 1:56 PM


Hydarnes
Your assertion reaches a critical error when one realizes that the city residence Pi-Ramesse is equivalent to the location Raamses (along with Pithom) mentioned in the Bible.
I didn't state that the city wasn't called Pi-Ramese, Lysimachus did, so I guess it's better to adress these points to him, rather then me.
I can live with the fact that it might have been recovered and might have been older. That doesn't change the fact that Pithom isn't and it's mentioned in the same sentence in exodus.
The fact that the word Pi wasn't used before Ramesse is an argument from Lysimachus, not mine. So, if we can conclude that we shouldn't be looking for Pi-Ramesse, that's fine by me, Pithom has been found and dated.
Now on to the chariot issue. I think that a few things need to be taken into consideration before dismissing these chariot finds as possibly Assyrian......
I've done no such thing. I've simply stated that they didn't fit the Egytpian examples we know of. The seabed example doesn't look like those at all.
Before wildly insinuating that an Assyrian cargo ship possibly lost some chariot wheels while traversing over Aqaba is more than far-fetch
Oooh, you mean this post. With the wink above it and the smily face to show I was just having a laugh, when I found that picture. I even stated later (in another post) that I was kidding.
I can't find a statement that Egyptian and Assyrian chariots looked alike. All Assyrian chariot pictures I found had thick rims. Maybe you can show me pictures of thin rimmed Assyrian or Canaanite chariots.
The Egyptians and Assyrians didn't use iron as often as everybody thinks. Actually, both nations got iron gifst from the Hittites, (one Assyrian king got a Hittite iron dagger to appeas him around 1250) proving iron to be not available for both those nations to, f.i, apply it to their chariots.
Lucy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Hydarnes, posted 07-27-2004 1:56 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 423 by Lysimachus, posted 07-27-2004 6:52 PM Prince Lucianus has not replied

Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 420 of 860 (128175)
07-27-2004 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Lysimachus
07-27-2004 6:00 PM


Re: We continue
quote:
Lys, please stop claiming a) that scientists are tools of the devil and b) that there is overwhelming evidence so our concerns don't matter, and actually answer my question. Which scientists, specifically (full name and verifiable credentials) have come out and said that they have seen these wheels in situ, that they are mid-18th dynasty artifacts, and that they are there as the result of the waters of the Red Sea crashing in on an army rather than chariots being lost overboard? Just, for once, answer that question without trying to divert attention with devil worshipping claims or comments about how it doesn't matter.
I didn't say scientists are the tools of the devil. Only that the devil has contributed in preventing this information from getting out like it should have.
You want to know which scientists with full blown credentials state that these are chariot wheels from the drowned Egyptian army at the Exodus crossing from the 18th dynasty, right? Your answer: None that I know of. However, it surprises me that you continue to be locked on this question, as I have answered this question in other various forms in the past. However, not one, NOT ONE full blown credentialed scientist has disputed these claims as proven falseeither. Only other non-credentialed archaeologists/scientists have disputed them.
We have done our job to show you that there are historical documents out there that recorded an event. These historical documents have been assembled into one big book called the "Bible". Based on following this historical document as a road map, we have been able to identify locations based on old maps (where Midian, Mt. Sinai, etc. are).
Based on mathmatical calculations on traveling distance, locations, authors such as Josephus, Paul, and a few others that I cannot remember off the top of my head, specifically account for the Exodus event, and describe the geographical area. Based on this, we are brought to Nuweiba beach, of which the long winding Wadi Watir leads us to.
On this beach there was a large column erected on it. The inscriptions on this column had been eroded away since the column had been partially in the water. But across the beach on the Saudi side was another identical large column which had an inscription in Phoenician (Archaic Hebrew) letters stating:
"Mizraim (Egypt); Solomon; Edom; death; pharaoh; Moses; and Yahweh.
From this, we know that King Solomon had erected these columns in honor of Yahweh and dedicated them to the miracle of the crossing of the sea.
What is rather breathtaking about all of this is that why would coincidentally chariot wheels, twisted wreckage, human, horse, and cattle bones be found lieing right on this underwater scrapeyard between the two columns? There can only be one answer. These are the archaeological remains of an event of which this certain particular historical document (do you remember that one document I mentioned?)recorded. Noneother.
This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 07-27-2004 05:34 PM

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Lysimachus, posted 07-27-2004 6:00 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by PaulK, posted 07-27-2004 7:09 PM Lysimachus has not replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 421 of 860 (128176)
07-27-2004 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Hydarnes
07-27-2004 6:10 PM


If your input in this thread is any indication of the level of education acquired by his detractors, then I'm afraid it's pretty egregious.
Then enlighten me.
Answer a few questions.
If 2 million people packed up and left Egypt, how come no one noticed?
If the whole Egyptian Army and their Pharoah were killed, how come none of the other world powers noticed?
How come there is no evidence of Hebrews even being in Egypt before around the 6th Century?
How come Jerico and Ai were unoccuppied when they were supposedly conquered?
Sorry, but if the Exodus happened, it was not at the time stated in the video, and did not involve 2 million people. In addition, there is no evidence yet to support the chase and destruction of the Egyptian army.
As to Wyatt, his ark fraud has been refuted time after time. He has never presented ANY evidence to any outside labs for confirmation.
This is crap of the highest order.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Hydarnes, posted 07-27-2004 6:10 PM Hydarnes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Lysimachus, posted 07-27-2004 6:46 PM jar has not replied

Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 422 of 860 (128183)
07-27-2004 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 421 by jar
07-27-2004 6:31 PM


Here is so more info that you folks might find interesting.
------------------------------------------------------------------
When Ron asked him how he knew this so readily, Mr. Hassan explained that the 8-spoked wheel was only used during the 18th Dynasty. This certainly narrowed the date. We began to thoroughly research the Egyptian chariot and soon discovered that the fact that Ron and the boys found 4, 6 and 8 spoked wheels places the Exodus in the 18th Dynasty according to numerous sources, such as the following:
"Egyptian literary references to chariots occur as early as the reigns of Kamose, the 17th Dynasty king who took the first steps in freeing Egypt from the Hyksos, and Ahmose, the founder of the 18th Dynasty. Pictorial representations, however, do not appear until slightly later in the 18th Dynasty...." (From "Observations on the Evolving Chariot Wheel in the 18th Dynasty" by James K. Hoffmeier, JARCE #13, 1976)
The author goes on to explain how it was only during the 18th Dynasty that the 4, 6 and 8 spoked wheels are used - and that monuments can actually be dated by the number of spokes in the wheel:
"Professor Yigael Yadin maintains that during the earlier part of the 18th Dynasty, the Egyptian chariot was `exactly like the Canaanite chariot:' both were constructed of light flexible wood, with leather straps wrapped around the wood to strengthen it, and both utilized wheels with four spokes.
In Yadin's eyes, the four-spoked wheel is diagnostic for dating purposes; it is restricted to the early part of the 18th Dynasty. It remained in vogue, he says, until the reign of Thutmoses IV, when `the Egyptian chariot begins to shake off its Canaanite influence and undergo considerable change.'
Yadin believes that the eight-spoked wheel, which is seen on the body of Thutmoses IV's chariot, was an experiment by the Egyptian wheelwrights, who, when it proved unsuccessful, settled thereafter for the six-spoked wheel. So widespread and meticulous is the delineation of the number of wheel spokes on chariots depicted on Egyptian monuments that they can be used as a criterion for determining whether the monument is earlier or later than 1400 BC."
(From "Observations on the Evolving Chariot Wheel in the 18th Dynasty" by James K. Hoffmeier, JARCE #13, 1976)
-------------------------------------------------------
So, as you can see, Nassif's words were not off. Research confirms this.
In addition, we are told in Exodus 14:6,7 that ALL the chariots of Egypt were taken, so it is not surprising to find the variety of wheels that have been identified. EVEN SOME WITH IRON WOULD BE THERE IF "ALL" THE CHARIOTS WERE TAKEN! WHETHER THE EGYPTIANS/ASSYRIANS HAD "FEW" CHARIOTS WITH IRON ON THEM, THE FACT REMAINS, "ALL" WERE TAKEN! "ALL"!
This message has been edited by Lysimachus, 07-27-2004 05:50 PM

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by jar, posted 07-27-2004 6:31 PM jar has not replied

Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 423 of 860 (128184)
07-27-2004 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Prince Lucianus
07-27-2004 6:21 PM


Re: Hydarnes
Prince Lucianus,
Arn't you even going to thank me for providing you the bigger pictures?

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-27-2004 6:21 PM Prince Lucianus has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 424 of 860 (128190)
07-27-2004 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by Lysimachus
07-27-2004 6:29 PM


Re: We continue
quote:
You want to know which scientists with full blown credentials state that these are chariot wheels from the drowned Egyptian army at the Exodus crossing from the 18th dynasty, right? Your answer: None that I know of. However, it surprises me that you continue tobe locked on this question, as I have answered this question in other various forms in the past. However, not one, NOT ONE full blown credentialed scientist has disputed these claims as proven false either. Only other non-credentialed archaeologists/scientists have disputed them.
i.e. no experts have commented at all. Well we have to ask why not ? Is it because neither Moller nor Wyatt have submitted their finds to a thorough examination by the experts ? It certainly is no reason to assume that Wyatt's and Moller's claims should be accepted at face value - and the less so when even amateurs can find serious problems in some of their claims.
quote:
We have done our job to show you that there are historical documents out there that recorded an event. These historical documents have been assembled into one big book called the "Bible".
Well I'm afraid that you've done a very poor job. The evidence provided is weak at best. Some of it turned out to be false -when subjected to basic checks. Why we should place more faith in evidence we have less opportunity to check is something you have yet to address.
quote:
What is rather breathtaking about all of this is that why would coincidentally chariot wheels, twisted wreckage, human, horse, and cattle bones be found lieing right on this underwater scrapeyard between the two columns? There can only be one answer. These arethe archaeological remains of an event of which this certain particular historical document (do you remember that one document I mentioned?)recorded. Noneother.
Given that it has yet to be confirmed that much of the "wreckage" is "wreckage" and there is no firm datign evidence for much of it I have to disagree. Concluding that all these things - even if genuine - come from a single event is completely unwarranted. For the human remains, alone - do you really beleive that nobody drowned near there in the last three thousand years ? Because without that assumption there is no evidence to link any human remains to the Exodus unless and until the bones are properly dated to that period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 420 by Lysimachus, posted 07-27-2004 6:29 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Prince Lucianus
Inactive Member


Message 425 of 860 (128192)
07-27-2004 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by Lysimachus
07-27-2004 5:47 PM


Re: We continue
The history used by Herodotus is an exageration in all respects.
The fleet was only provided by the Greeks, and in later times they had difficulty to supply 200-300 ships. So, most scholars think 200-300 we're the maximum used.
Of the 35 races Herodotus spoke, several only could have send mercenaries, like the Lybians and most had very small territories, so they were never able to field the large number of people or at least a full batallion. And, those man had to be supplied for a year.
Even Napoleon couldn't do that for a year on end and he had less troops. Maybe he had 200.000 troops (which I can hardly believe) but 1.000.000 is totally not possible.
About the wheels:
It probably was never addressed because it was never considered an issue. If the size of the wheels were outside the typical range, it would have most certainly been addressed. I’m sure Nassif Mohammed Nassan would have noticed this instantly.
As for stating there is no room for the spokes, I feel you are beginning to get somewhat nitpicky. It all has to do with how the viewer wishes to interpret one thing from another, and I personally do not see a problem in this area. The thickness of the coral contributes to making the room for the spokes seem limited. The wheel seems small and chunky, yet when I look at a number of reliefs, I see small chunky wheels depicted of similar nature.
Well, he might have when he is the expert on ancient chariot wheels, but supposing he's an egyptologist. He could have stated that Assyrians used these several hundred years later. Assyrians did conquer parts of Egypt in those days. Assyria was a conquered nation (briefly) during 1446.
But, since this example is lost (I believe I saw that somewhere in this thread) it's impossible to say anything about it anymore.
And, we're both nitpicky. The picture drawings show me something different, they seem to show you something different. We can at least state that these drawings are imaginative, because otherwise they wouldn't have been needed. So, to shorten this debate (which could go on for days like this) I'll simply await further evidence. A wheel has to be recovered and x-rayd or something. In my view, only one wheel is identifiably visible, and that one doesn't look like the wheels from the period we're examining.
Thanks for the picture. It isn't really helpfull, I hoped it would show more of the picture. Furthermore, I hoped it would reveal where it was from.
Lucy

Bible
Search Results
"Death & Dead" were found 827 times in 751 verses.
Thats a Whole Lotta Suffering

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Lysimachus, posted 07-27-2004 5:47 PM Lysimachus has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 426 of 860 (128195)
07-27-2004 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Eta_Carinae
07-27-2004 2:34 PM


Re: Why has a Ron Wyatt fraud got 400+ posts.
Eta, it's obvious that from your questions you either haven't read much of this thread or have a flawed memory.
Since these 'discoveries' supposedly occurred a few years ago-
WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN THE OBJECT OF LARGE EXPEDITIONS FROM THE BIG RESEARCH FOUNDATIONS AND UNIVERSITIES?
Simple. Their whole educational ideological structure would be totally devastated.
WHY IS IT NOT THE LEAD STORY ON CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, BBC etc etc etc.
Very simple. Their whole educational ideological structure would be totally devastated.
WHY CAN NO ONE ELSE FIND THESE CHARIOTS?
They can. Get National Geographic to send Ballard out there. LOL!!!!
WYATT AND COHORTS PROVIDED INFORMATION WHERE ThIS STUFF IS?
Read the thread. Repeaters repeating it have repeatedly repeated it repetitiously.
HOW CAN A KNOWN FRAUD LIKE WYATT CON PEOPLE WITH THIS NONSENSE?
Unfair frauds like you who teach fraudulent falacies falsely find him fraudulent.
WHY CAN'T THE WISHFUL THINKERS OUT THERE REALISE THEY ARE SWALLOWING A PILE OF BULLSHIT FROM A KNOWN BULLSHITTER?
Take a good look at the young minds full of mush in your classroom who swallow yours year after year. People are reall gullible, aren't they, Eta?
ARE YOU THAT DESPERATE AND WEAK IN YOUR FAITH THAT YOU WILL GRASP ANYTHING, NO MATTER WHAT THE SOURCE, TO BOLSTER IT?
PATHETIC!
Our ideology requires less faith than thine, me friend. Ye are the folks of great faith. After all, it us who have the real hands on evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Eta_Carinae, posted 07-27-2004 2:34 PM Eta_Carinae has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Lysimachus, posted 07-27-2004 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 446 by lfen, posted 07-28-2004 10:57 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Lysimachus
Member (Idle past 5191 days)
Posts: 380
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 427 of 860 (128232)
07-27-2004 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 426 by Buzsaw
07-27-2004 7:44 PM


Re: Why has a Ron Wyatt fraud got 400+ posts.
Prince Lucianus
quote:
Thanks for the picture. It isn't really helpfull, I hoped it would show more of the picture. Furthermore, I hoped it would reveal where it was from.
I told you where it was from. It's sitting in the Cairo Museum, did you not see the words in Italics? I took a screenshot of full rendered relief in the Exodus video, JUST FOR YOU. (btw, it took me 4 hours to figure out after downloading software to take a DVD screenshot, ALL FOR YOU!), so you better appreciate this one

{Rescaled graphic to "100%", to restore page width to normal - Hope I didn't make the legibility worse. - Adminnemooseus}
Sorry I cannot get it any clearer, but I don’t think it is that bad.
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-27-2004 11:38 PM

~Lysimachus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Buzsaw, posted 07-27-2004 7:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-28-2004 9:12 AM Lysimachus has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 428 of 860 (128244)
07-28-2004 12:35 AM


Lucy,
quote:
I didn't state that the city wasn't called Pi-Ramese, Lysimachus did, so I guess it's better to adress these points to him, rather then me.
I can live with the fact that it might have been recovered and might have been older.
For some reason the first part of my sentence got corrupted, and failed to grammatically convey what it was meant to. Please re-read for clarification. Apologies for the inconvenience.
quote:
That doesn't change the fact that Pithom isn't and it's mentioned in the same sentence in exodus.
The fact that the word Pi wasn't used before Ramesse is an argument from Lysimachus, not mine. So, if we can conclude that we shouldn't be looking for Pi-Ramesse, that's fine by me, Pithom has been found and dated.
Obviously you didn’t bother to carefully read my post before hastening to reply, or you would have noticed that I already addressed the issue of Pithom, and both candidate locations have also been shown to predate Rameses II in occupation. Furthermore, I was addressing specifically the original contention that you made in reference to Rameses, as you stated here:
quote:
explain why the city of Rameses is mentioned in Genesis and Exodus (so, as written by Moses), although it is build by Ramses the Great (roundabout) 150 years later.
You know that Thutmoses IV and the city Of Rameses can not be used for the same period.
So please don’t proceed to modify the original argument in dispute by shifting the issue exclusively to Pithom, although you had mentioned it in a previous post. Either acknowledge that your placement of Rameses II and the city Pi-Ramesse in relation to Raamses was incorrect or address the issue at hand.
quote:
I've done no such thing. I've simply stated that they didn't fit the Egytpian examples we know of. The seabed example doesn't look like those at all.
I’m sorry if I misunderstood you to be insinuating an Assyrian origin. As for your tenuous conclusion on the chariot wheels in debate, I have yet to see anything conclusive from you that should indicate that it isn’t definitively Egyptian. Your reasons are largely speculative, perceptive and overall inconclusive. Additionally, I have provided ample explanation for Egyptians in possession of foreign chariots captured repeatedly during conquests. And irrespective of this multitudinous array of possibilities, it does not lessen the pattern of evidence which is heavily indicative of an Egyptian army meeting a demise in a way that seems to substantiate the events as described in Exodus. Again, there are all three, 4, 6 and 8 respectively that have been discovered, contributing to the pattern in view.
You also seem to ignore that Nassif Mohammed Hassan (director of Antiquities in Cairo at the time one of the wheels were presented to him) identified it as Egyptian 18th dynasty, despite the hollow assaults on the credibility of that identification by a few individuals in this thread.
And a comment which you made earlier that I would like to comment on:
quote:
So, there could not have been rust coming from Egytpian Chariots, sunk 1446 BC. Only Thutmoses III and Ramses III mention (in documents) iron once, and both accounts concern gifts. There is no (or worthless amount of) iron production until the end of the 7th century. So, show me your sources, because these are highly suspect.
You also failed to note an iron dagger in the possession of Tutankhamun. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are missing other instances of Egypt in possession of Iron, although I wholeheartedly recognize that it was not the prominent metal at the time, nor employed as such.
Another issue worth pointing out is the Exodus date at approximately 1446.BC. While this date is based on a very educated and meticulous deduction providing a very helpful timeframe, the actual placement of dating for the event can be compromised to some extent in either direction---taking into consideration problems with determining exact dating with certainty. And ,therefore, the proposed date for the Exodus should not be religiously held with specificity but rather circa 1446/47 BC.

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Prince Lucianus, posted 07-28-2004 6:30 AM Hydarnes has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 429 of 860 (128249)
07-28-2004 12:50 AM


Paulk,
quote:
Why are the arguments for the idea that Tuthmosis and Amenhotep titles at best based on questionable interpretations of evidence and at worst completely spurious ? Why is the contrary evidence ignored ? If there is adequate evidence to support it, why has it not been produced ?
First off, I would prefer if your question manifested a tad more interest in understanding, rather than a leading one.
The hypothesis concerning the parallel identities of Pharaohs is just that, a hypothesis that has yet to be established with substantial evidence. No one has touted it as fact, so to treat it as though it were being proposed as one is simply irresponsible.
As painful as it is to admit for all people who share a deep interest in Egyptian history and relating chronological matters, it would be less than honest not to admit that when it comes to more specific matters concerning ancient Egypt, and especially dating and chronology, everything must remain in the realm of educated speculation and at best, a tentatively supported theory with severe incongruities and usually conflicting evidence.
With this said, it is terribly naive to talk of Ancient Egyptian dating with events and reigns of kings as though these things have been established beyond dispute and with certainty, even while the heavyweights are at constant dissonance with each other’s conjectures and often subscribe to totally different premises for dating. What the mass media and populace generally accept as historical fact, is in reality the prodigy of educated suppositions made by heavyweight Egyptologists who want desperately to know something for certain when it comes to Ancient Egypt.
I will be the first to admit that this hypothesis being proposed contains severe flaws and apparent data contradictions that could easily render it an inviable one, but it is nevertheless based on some [apparent?] evidence. Because archdiscovery.com has an article in support of said scenario, I will quote it first:
"The inscriptions found in temples and tombs indicate that the "Thutmoses" name is indicative of one of the offices of the pharaoh, just as was the "Amenhotep" name- and that each pharaoh was both a "Thutmoses" as well as an "Amenhotep" as he advanced in the royal line from co-regent to emperor. From our research, it appears that the crown prince received his "Thutmoses" title upon being appointed co-regent, and then became "Amenhotep" in addition to his earlier names, when he became emperor."--arkdiscovery.com
The source for this data is yet unknown. I will be emailing them soon to inquire as to the origin of this information being constructed.
One for one of the principle reasons for questioning the identities of the Thutmosides and Amenhoteps is because Amun(-Ra) was the supreme Egyptian deity and, therefore, it contends that it doesn't seem logical that one Pharaoh would be named after the chief deity Amun (of which he was the earthly embodiment of) while another would be of Thoth. It then proceeds to line up the kings, and surprisingly the dating fits with the Exodus timeline and events almost perfectly, although this cannot automatically lend credence to the hypothesis or render it into factual status.
Could it very well be that Thutmosis and Amenhotep are merely titles? Absolutely. What evidence might be suggestive of this? Take "Rameses" for example. It was a title used for numerous kings of Egypt as it means "son of Ra", but yet it seems to also be a personal name, hence Rameses I, II, III. Could it be that both were used as a name and a title? Perhaps. We may never know.
There are also conflicting year issues pertaining to Thutmosis III that would seem to indicate him as the same person as Amenhotep II, and is part of the many complex estimations that have contributed to this new chronology. It would take me unreasonably long to provide exhaustive coverage for all the reasons why this new scenario has been proposed, but perhaps you might want to study the matter out for yourself so that you are acquainted with it.
As inconclusive as this hypothesis is, it isn't more farfetched than many which are accepted with generally less hesitance. But because of the issue and implications attached to this one, it is prematurely dismissed with hypocrisy by many.
Based on the evidence of the events of Ancient Egypt, and the circa placement of the Exodus, I have personally concluded that the Pharaoh of the Exodus was most likely Amenhotep III, even if the Wyatt scenario for the succession of kings proves to be wrong. If you want me to expound on why I believe this to be the case, I will try to supply you with some sort of synopsis.

Replies to this message:
 Message 435 by PaulK, posted 07-28-2004 3:41 AM Hydarnes has not replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 430 of 860 (128253)
07-28-2004 1:00 AM


jar
quote:
Then enlighten me.
I’ll be happy to. But only so I don’t have to watch you post any more rubbish.
quote:
If 2 million people packed up and left Egypt, how come no one noticed?
What basis do you have for this presupposition? Merely the fact that very little historical documentation has been made for the event? Face it, the ancient world seethed with propaganda and to pretend that there should be unadulterated records to support it is simply to ignore what we both know all too well about the literary characters of Ancient Empires and Egypt in particularthat they did everything in their power to either misrepresent, obliterate and erase everything that wasn’t favorable to them. Something that we have clearly documented.
ALso, the Ipuwer papyrus could very well be an adulterated account of the event of the Exodus, as it was written in the 19th dynasty and describes conspicuously similar occurrences (namely plagues) as described in the narrative.
quote:
If the whole Egyptian Army and their Pharoah were killed, how come none of the other world powers noticed?
You again return to your leading questions in order to attach a fictitious dilemma to this side of the issue. For your benefit, allow me to point out basic events that occurred during the end of the 18th dynasty. A little extra research might have spared yourself the embarrassment of having to be flatly contradicted by historical records that fit corroboratively well with the Exodus story.
It has generally been calculated that the Egyptian Empire reached a dazzling pinnacle under the reign of the illustrious king Amenhotep III, but what is so interestingly odd is how the Empire suddenly experiences such a drastic ebb under the reign of his infamous successor Akhenaten, and for no apparent reason. The well-known Amarna letters distinctly attest to something going terribly wrong with Egypt’s military might during the reign of Akhenaten. We find numerous pleas from the kings of vassal states in Canaan and Mesopotamia begging the king of Egypt to support these subject states with military aid against invasion, but with no answer. The minimal military help that Akhenaten did send near the end of his reign could have very well been all he was able to muster, considering a scenario where the entire army of Egypt perishes. Was Akhenaten simply preoccupied with singing praises to the Aten, or was he somehow unable to salvage his crumbling empire from invasion?
quote:
How come there is no evidence of Hebrews even being in Egypt before around the 6th Century?
Not only does Manetho himself attest to an Israelite Exodus from Egypt (although his version of events is extremely mutilated in many of its historical aspects), but strong evidence for an asiatic/Hebrew settlement in Tel-el Daba, the biblical land of Raamses or Goshen, has been recently uncovered, your myopic assertions notwithstanding.
The evidence of an Asiatic presence in Egypt is overwhelming, albeit finding direct evidence to this presence as being directly Hebrew has been somewhat difficult. We know that the Israelites were already in Canaan by the time of Merneptah, however, as he alludes to in a stele.
I strongly recommend doing yourself a huge favor by just honestly admitting that you need to investigate this subject further instead of masquerading in here like you actually know what you’re talking about. It’s the only way if you expect to have a competent dialogue on any issue, and this one in particular. Stating an unlearned opinion is not only worthless to the discussion but injurious to the informative wellbeing of others.)

Replies to this message:
 Message 431 by crashfrog, posted 07-28-2004 1:05 AM Hydarnes has not replied
 Message 434 by jar, posted 07-28-2004 1:30 AM Hydarnes has not replied
 Message 436 by PaulK, posted 07-28-2004 3:58 AM Hydarnes has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 431 of 860 (128254)
07-28-2004 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by Hydarnes
07-28-2004 1:00 AM


That's a neat post but I was wondering if you could document it a little better. You make many allusions but don't give us much to go on to substantiate these claims.
(Oh, and you're new here, so I thought I'd point it out - if you're replying to a post, you should use the "Reply" button below the specific post, the one with the little red arrow. That makes links that make it perfectly clear who you're replying to, and help us navigate the thread. You can see such a link below this very post; it's automatic when you use the red arrow reply button.)
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 07-28-2004 12:07 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by Hydarnes, posted 07-28-2004 1:00 AM Hydarnes has not replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 432 of 860 (128264)
07-28-2004 1:27 AM


crashfrog,
Thank you for the recommendation with regard to posting.
P.S. Who's post, and which specifically, are you commenting on? Thanks

Replies to this message:
 Message 450 by crashfrog, posted 07-28-2004 3:26 PM Hydarnes has replied

Hydarnes
Inactive Member


Message 433 of 860 (128265)
07-28-2004 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by Eta_Carinae
07-27-2004 2:34 PM


Re: Why has a Ron Wyatt fraud got 400+ posts.
Eta,
If you think you’re accomplishing something by adding hyperbole to your already meaningless content, you’re pretty misguided. I seriously doubt you’ve read anything here in justifiable measure before cluttering this thread with sophomoric rubbish.
This message has been edited by Hydarnes, 07-28-2004 12:34 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Eta_Carinae, posted 07-27-2004 2:34 PM Eta_Carinae has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by Eta_Carinae, posted 07-28-2004 11:36 AM Hydarnes has replied

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