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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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So far so good as far as that SCOTUS decision goes but it's awfully limited and doesn't challenge the real issue which is the conflict created with biblical faith by the legalizing of gay marriage. I don't see how the legalization affects it. Before that happened, it was still perfectly possible for a gay couple to go to one of the churches that marries gay people, have a wedding, and subsequently eat cake. Such a marriage wasn't recognized by the government, but presumably it would still have been equally offensive to assholes.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You just need to change your ideas about what dishonours God. ... refuse to do something that would dishonor God.... You're stuck in the old Testament with the other Pharisees. Jesus came to clarify what dishonours God - He said it was failing to love thy neighbour.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
o far so good as far as that SCOTUS decision goes but it's awfully limited and doesn't challenge the real issue which is the conflict created with biblical faith by the legalizing of gay marriage. I don't see how the legalization affects it. Beyond that, the original concern, as expressed here, is not one q question that the Supreme Court could have addressed. If in fact, granting a right to one group conflicts with the wants and desires of others, that concern of necessity must be secondary at best. In fact, every grant of civil rights under the constitution offends somebody. Just allowing any Chinese or Muslims into the country already offends some folks. When it comes to allowing one group of folks to have the secular benefits of marriage, when their marriages is absolutely none of the business of the rest of us, my religious objects simply cannot be an important consideration. Marriages are about your relationship as a couple to the state, and the state, under our Constitution, cannot make religious denials of rights any more than they can make ethnic or racial denials. I'll admit here that I am an old fogey, and I do still get, weirded out when I see gay folks kiss on television. On the other hand, I used to turn my head when cowboys kissed women instead of their horses. My own feelings of ickiness, even when backed by religious teachings, simply cannot be a real reason to disallow other folks from doing what they want. The Bible lists a whole bunch of things that are abominations and worse. However gay marriage alone is singled out as the one thing that ought to be a reason for society to BOHICA to bigots. Not buying it, and neither should you. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Bible lists a whole bunch of things that are abominations and worse. However gay marriage alone is singled out as the one thing that ought to be a reason for society to BOHICA to bigots. Not buying it, and neither should you. Nobody is singling out gay marriage except people asking for specifically gay wedding paraphernalia from people whose belief in God forbids gay weddings. That's what the Supreme Court did, Christians aren't doing any singling out of anybody. Ringo says just change your beliefs. Well, God is God, I can't do that. Believers in the God of the Bible are called bigots for having no choice but to act on what they have always believed about God's ordinance of marriage. The Supreme Court did that, Christians aren't doing it. Being called bigots for acting on our beliefs, being sued and prosecuted for acting on our beliefs is a form of persecution. Just call it what it is. As I said we expect to have to adjust to it. NOne of this is about refusing service to a class of people, it's specifically about weddings, only weddings. Birthdays no problem, Valentine's Day no problem, Cupcake Day no problem, just not special catering for weddings. So your multiple abominations are irrelevant. It's not about personal sins, it's about . weddings. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Nobody is singling out gay marriage except people asking for specifically gay wedding paraphernalia from people whose belief in God forbids gay weddings. That's what the Supreme Court did, Christians aren't doing any singling out of anybody Your comment is off target. I did not say anything about gay people being singled out. My comment was about the cherry picking by some folks regarding which abominations in the Bible they are going to take seriously. The Supreme Court did not single anyone out. They are making general statements that apply to everyone regardless of their religious affiliation. What the Supreme Court did not do was give fundamentalist beliefs any particular weight. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I don't know whether you can change your beliefs or not - but you can change how you act on your beliefs. You could try, for example, to do what Jesus told you to do instead of what Moses told you to do. Ringo says just change your beliefs.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't know whether you can change your beliefs or not - but you can change how you act on your beliefs. You could try, for example, to do what Jesus told you to do instead of what Moses told you to do. Jesus told nobody to disobey God, and your theology is not my theology.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Your comment is off target. I did not say anything about gay people being singled out. My comment was about the cherry picking by some folks regarding which abominations in the Bible they are going to take seriously. But that isn't true either.
The Supreme Court did not single anyone out. They are making general statements that apply to everyone regardless of their religious affiliation. What the Supreme Court did not do was give fundamentalist beliefs any particular weight. They legalized gay marriage, redefining it as a civil right, which is a direct challenge to those who believe God created marriage for the purpose of joining the sexes. DIRECT challenge to a specific belief by Bible Christians. I'm just trying to clarify the reality here. I'm not even trying to change it, but this is what the Supreme Court did. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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They legalized gay marriage, redefining it as a civil right, which is a direct challenge to those who believe God created marriage for the purpose of joining the sexes. DIRECT challenge to a specific belief by Bible Christians. Legalizing interracial marriage was exactly the same kind of challenge to supposedly right-thinking Christians. I am not impressed by your double talk. A lot of things, including a lot of policy enacted by the current administration, are direct challenges to my strongly held Christian beliefs, but that does not mean that those laws are unconstitutional. What you are complaining about are laws that provide other folks rights. I have no sympathy for that whatsoever. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
God told nobody to persecute gay people. Jesus told people NOT to. Jesus told nobody to disobey God, and your theology is not my theology.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nobody is persecuting gay people.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Nobody is singling out gay marriage except people asking for specifically gay wedding paraphernalia from people whose belief in God forbids gay weddings. Actually, if you bake a cake for a mixed gendered couple's wedding but not for a same sex couple's wedding, then you are singling out gay people as those who don't get cake at their wedding. I mean, that's pretty much what it means to "single out" someone. And anti-discrimination laws are based on the idea there are groups of people who have been singled out for unfair treatment and continue to be singled out for unfair treatment, and so the state will specifically recognize them as people whose right to fair treatment will be protected by the state. -
NOne of this is about refusing service to a class of people, it's specifically about weddings, Sure it is. It's about whether heterosexual couples get ake for their wedding but gay people have to do without. If you are willing to bake a wedding cake for a mixed gendered couples wedding but you refuse to bake a cake for a same sex couple's wedding you are refusing a service that you ordinarily offer to someone, and refusing the service to someone that Colorado law does not allow you to refuse. Seriously, that is exactly what the words mean.Progress is not an illusion, it happens, but it is slow and invariably disappointing. - George Orwell
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Interracial marriage is a false comparison. Opposing that was against the Bible. Interracial marriage is a marriage between the two sexes which is according to God's ordinance making the two to be one flesh. They were not "right thinking Christians," they were opposing the Bible in many ways. Racism itself is contrary to the Bible. We're all children of one set of parents. This argument is twisted and absurd.
A law that grants a "right" that opposes God's law is twisted. But again, this twisted law is going to stand and God's law is going to be denied and those who support God's law are going to be persecuted, because even supposed Christians and supposed lawyers support such twistedness, and that's the way it is.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Right, that's the way things are going, redefining the understanding of millennia, no point in fighting it.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
They legalized gay marriage, To be more precise, they pointed out that the state failed to show a legitimate interest in denying the advantages and obligations of marriage to same sex couples, and that the only conclusion the court could reach is that the denial is based on an irrational animosity toward a certain group. Being singled out for unfair treatment because of animosity and not because of a legitimate state interest is against everyone's civil rights. In fact, the court also decided that Philips of Masterpiece Cakeshop received unfair treatment due to animosity rather then legitimate state interest, so it kind of protects everyone.Progress is not an illusion, it happens, but it is slow and invariably disappointing. - George Orwell
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