Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,816 Year: 3,073/9,624 Month: 918/1,588 Week: 101/223 Day: 12/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The 2016 United States Presidential Election
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 91 of 892 (793034)
10-19-2016 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by ThinAirDesigns
10-19-2016 7:43 AM


Re: Rigged
ThinAirdesigns writes:
Damn Democrats also rigged it in a great many states so that not only the Independents couldn't vote in their primaries, but also the Republicans. Don't forget that little bit of last minute surprise, behind the scenes, not covered by the media shenanigans.
I'm not too sure what you mean. Is your argument that Republicans couldn't vote in the Republican Primaries because Democrats stopped them from voting and then Democrats voted in the Republican Primaries instead of Republicans?
Yet, Mr Trump won the Republican Primaries even after he accused those primaries as being rigged.
You and Mr Trump really don't make any sense. Please explain.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 10-19-2016 7:43 AM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by PaulK, posted 10-19-2016 8:54 AM Pressie has not replied
 Message 93 by jar, posted 10-19-2016 9:29 AM Pressie has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 92 of 892 (793035)
10-19-2016 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Pressie
10-19-2016 8:31 AM


Re: Rigged
I think you botched on your "detect sarcasm" roll, Pressie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Pressie, posted 10-19-2016 8:31 AM Pressie has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 93 of 892 (793037)
10-19-2016 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Pressie
10-19-2016 8:31 AM


Re: Rigged
The US has what must seem very strange election laws. This is yet another of those examples.
In the US how someone can vote varies by location; some states have what is called open primaries where you can vote for anyone in any combination. A Republican can vote for a Democrat in one race, an Independent in another race and Republicans in yet other races. In many cases this meant if one party was not running opposed then that parties members could decide which of the other parties candidates won the primary.
But in other states you can only vote in the primary of your registered party, Republicans cannot vote in the Democratic Primary and independents can't vote in any primary.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Pressie, posted 10-19-2016 8:31 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Taq, posted 10-19-2016 11:10 AM jar has not replied
 Message 95 by nwr, posted 10-19-2016 12:51 PM jar has not replied
 Message 96 by caffeine, posted 10-19-2016 1:56 PM jar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 94 of 892 (793044)
10-19-2016 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by jar
10-19-2016 9:29 AM


Re: Rigged
jar writes:
The US has what must seem very strange election laws. This is yet another of those examples.
Party nominations are not US elections. If a political party wanted to, it could choose one person to be the sole elector of their party's nomination. There are no laws that say a party's nominee must be chosen by a vote of the people. A party can do whatever it wants when it comes to choosing their nominee.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 10-19-2016 9:29 AM jar has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 95 of 892 (793054)
10-19-2016 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by jar
10-19-2016 9:29 AM


Re: Rigged
But in other states you can only vote in the primary of your registered party, Republicans cannot vote in the Democratic Primary and independents can't vote in any primary.
Illinois doesn't quite fit your descriptions.
It is usually described as an open primary state. So you can show up to vote for the primary, and request either the Republican ballot or the Democratic ballot. But you cannot mix and match. Either you only vote for Republicans (if you use the Republican ballot) or you only vote for Democrats (if you use that ballot).
Oh, whichever ballot you use, you are then considered to be a member of that party until the next primary.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 10-19-2016 9:29 AM jar has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 96 of 892 (793055)
10-19-2016 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by jar
10-19-2016 9:29 AM


Re: Rigged
The US has what must seem very strange election laws. This is yet another of those examples.
The whole idea of primaries has always seemed odd to me. Over here parties pick their leaders and their candidates for different posts (including President) by a variety of internal processes. The idea of a big public vote where some people who aren't even members of the party can get involved seems an odd approach.
They have very recently started doing it in France. The Socialists introduced a primary for the the last Presidential elections, and this year the Republicans will have one as well.
The US system still seems odd though. The Republican primary in France will be held on 20th November. If no one gets 50% of the vote they will have a runoff the week after. Only in the US do you think it necessary for this process to take a year.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 10-19-2016 9:29 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2016 2:29 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 892 (793056)
10-19-2016 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by caffeine
10-19-2016 1:56 PM


Re: Rigged
The US system still seems odd though. The Republican primary in France will be held on 20th November. If no one gets 50% of the vote they will have a runoff the week after. Only in the US do you think it necessary for this process to take a year.
I suppose the primary process could be completed in a just a day or two even with the country divided up into 50 states. In the US, the presidential primaries are 'primarily' dog and pony shows to allow the public to meet the candidates and to drum up nationwide interest in their nominee. A year is perhaps way too long for that, but a month would be way too short, in my opinion.
That said, the election process in the US does seem to be taking longer and longer each cycle. It seems like this time around the process has taken 2 years, which is just plain ridiculous.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by caffeine, posted 10-19-2016 1:56 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Taq, posted 10-19-2016 3:17 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 98 of 892 (793060)
10-19-2016 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by NoNukes
10-19-2016 2:29 PM


Re: Rigged
NoNukes writes:
That said, the election process in the US does seem to be taking longer and longer each cycle.
It takes the same amount of time every other year--just one day, the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by NoNukes, posted 10-19-2016 2:29 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by xongsmith, posted 10-20-2016 3:03 PM Taq has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 892 (793067)
10-20-2016 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
10-10-2016 3:08 PM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
With that one exception, the Federal Governments powers to adversely effect the average citizen is fortunately limited.
True. However the power of individual states to inflict harm on the average citizen has historically been shown to be immense. The federal judiciary has been a powerful check on such power and I will get my lazy butt up early tomorrow to cast a vote for president based on a single question; what do I want the federal judiciary to look like over the next decade or so.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 10-10-2016 3:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 8:36 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 100 of 892 (793073)
10-20-2016 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by NoNukes
10-20-2016 12:32 AM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
NoNukes writes:
However the power of individual states to inflict harm on the average citizen has historically been shown to be immense.
Absodamnlutely. The power to inflict harm on people is far greater at the state and local level than any harm the Federal Government can impose beyond that exception I mentioned. State and local governments can directly kill individuals but not en masse.
And a Federal Government can and does help people en masse.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by NoNukes, posted 10-20-2016 12:32 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by PaulK, posted 10-20-2016 8:40 AM jar has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 101 of 892 (793074)
10-20-2016 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by jar
10-20-2016 8:36 AM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
And that is why you should be suspicious of any call for "States Rights"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 8:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 9:33 AM PaulK has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 102 of 892 (793075)
10-20-2016 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by PaulK
10-20-2016 8:40 AM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
Absodamnlutely two.
But this does show echos of an earlier election.
Il Donald last night would not say that he would except the outcome of the election. Back in 1860 the first Republican President was elected and at that time his election was also not accepted. Yet history shows that President served his full term and was even reelected four years later.
Edited by jar, : hit wrong key

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by PaulK, posted 10-20-2016 8:40 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Taq, posted 10-20-2016 10:52 AM jar has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 103 of 892 (793077)
10-20-2016 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by 1.61803
10-17-2016 4:50 PM


Re: The Clinton Machine
I live in a RED state. So I feel very disenfranchised every election.
I've lived in Mississippi, where the democrats were to the right of Massachusetts republicans ... and still lost. And I've lived in Indiana and Michigan (west coast evangelical michigan). Now I am in RI and am constantly amazed at the level of democrat control ... but we have a lot of DINOs and republicans that ran as democrats to get elected (after all the state chose to adopt the ALEC voter ID law), but the political battles are now fought in the primaries, not the general.
But I do still vote. I am hoping if Hillary does win she turns out to be a great president, maybe she will surprise us. Maybe it will be her calling. I will say I do not envy her if she does as Congress is already sharpening their knives.
I would say "be careful what you wish for" ... my fear is that she will embrace militarization of police and the NSA and Homeland Security to advance the corporate police state.
Certainly if she cannot help win a simple majority in the Senate (4 seats needed) then the DNC will have picked a loser, and we can expect another 4 years of do nothing politics embroiled in one investigation after another.
If her coattails do help win a simple majority in the Senate then she better get cracking on appointment approvals, because she will likely lose it in 2018. Again, the DNC would have made a bad decision and will likely fail again to back issues that would bring voters to the polls, just like they did in 2014. Snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
IF by some miracle (Donald Trump sinks the GOP across the ballot) dems take the house and get a supermajority in the senate, then she better work on reinstating the Voter Rights Act as priority #1.
The problem is that she is SO HATED by republicans that they will vote against her, downticket, even if they don't vote for Trump. They will come out of the woodwork to do this.
Ok, Ok, but tell us how you really feel.
Those who are comfortable with this election are free to feel so, I have no more energy (in whatever form) to spend on it, but I think it is a new low for the US regardless. Hillary is a 'Nixon Republican' (she has said she considers herself an 'Eisenhower Republican' but got the wrong administration ), she is not a democrat and I don't vote for republicans.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by 1.61803, posted 10-17-2016 4:50 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by 1.61803, posted 10-20-2016 11:38 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 104 of 892 (793078)
10-20-2016 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
10-20-2016 9:33 AM


Re: Hardly the worst election.
jar writes:
Back in 1860 the first Republican President was elected and at that time his election was also not accepted. Yet history shows that President served his full term and was even reelected four years later.
Not sure if that is sarcasm or not, but history also shows that 11 states seceded from the union following that same election.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 9:33 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by jar, posted 10-20-2016 11:55 AM Taq has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 105 of 892 (793079)
10-20-2016 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by RAZD
10-20-2016 10:24 AM


Re: The Clinton Machine
Hi RAZD,
You paint a very dim picture of the future if Hillary wins.
In you opinion we will either have our civil liberties trounced on or have a do nothing administration gridlocked once again by congress.
I will admit I do not know where her true political allegiance stands, but I feel she is someone who genuinely loves America and who has a grasp of the challenges we are facing. Anyone will be better than Trump imo.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by RAZD, posted 10-20-2016 10:24 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024